Another live poker cheating scandal

[Guest Fudge]

 

She has 100k in tournament winnings so she's not a complete beginner. This is not your first time player making very unpredictable decisions.

Apparently she gave back the money, which in my mind, only makes it more likely of cheating.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Fudge

[philinvicta]

The reasons she was giving were total bullshit at one time she even said she though t he had an ace well if he had she would of lost both run outs.   She said why do you let me do this to you after he went all  in for over 100k and she called.   pretty sure  he was well favourite   with open ender and flush draw   jack was no good for her only a 4 or total misses. I do not play much nowadays and some of the lads on here would  might play more regularly but if I had her hand and knew his I would still fold  for that much money

I just put in a odds calculator  and it shows her 55% to him 45%  which surprises me a little but even so I would still fold and to be honest would  never be there with J4  by the turn

Edited September 30, 2022 by philinvicta

[philinvicta]

Another video which shows her taking money off the table and giving it back to him. 

I think if I was in that game I would have my money off the table and be gone 

surely this has to be some sort of set up in an attempt to get viewers up for the stream   otherwise WTF

[bigbucks1983]

I watched this and absolutely none of it made sense. 

The problem is he had 19 outs on the river and it was being run twice. The odds were he would likely won 1, potentially both if lucky. Why cheat just to have a 110k flip. Might aswell just shove time you have decent cards and hope for a call. It makes zero sense. If you have a way to cheat then do it when you're guaranteed to win.

The other side is that her call made absolutely no sense. Every reason she gave for the play made no sense, changed each time and I don't think there is anyway anyone could explain her play, it was beyond stupid and nonsensical.

Some people are saying she misread her cards and thought she had a 3 but I struggle to see how either a J or 4 could be confused with a 3, more so when she clearly knew she had a J.

[The_Guests]

Ive just watched Doug Polk's vid on this, and sat through 90 mins of Joey Ingrams 9.5hour livestream about it.

I have completely flipped and done a 180 on my initial thought.

At first i was like Garrett, and thought that she just HAD to be cheating to make that call. it just didnt make sense at all.

But now, having sat through her explaining it, and thinking about everything i think shes telling the truth that she misread her hand as J3. despite the fact she spent a good time looking at her cards before she made the call.

She actually had J3 in the very hand previous to this one when Joey rewound it.

When she says she put him on Ace high, it would make sense that she thought she had bottom pair.

on the turn she does say 'is a 3 good? i have a bluffcatcher'

imo she looks sheepish when she flips her cards and realises. but we can all take different views on why. she apparently told the guy running the show (i think Nick?) that she was nervous and embarrassed that she had read her hand wrong, and was only the second or 3rd time she had ever played on a live show

Also it makes zero sense to cheat this way, being 55% to 45% favourite with 1 card to come. basically cheating for a 50/50 coinflip opportunity? that makes even less sense.

offering the money back is a little suss though. But i do also get when she was giving her interview after than she just doesnt want the hassle, and i feel she knows she didnt deserve to win by misreading her hand. so that again makes sense to me if you have a degree of guilt and like fairness.

i thought her friend at the table Rick was a fucking dick though, started shouting at Garrett. 

thats my tuppence worth. I think she should be given the benefit of the doubt here, but i can understand completely why everyone thinks she cheated.

i think you should watch the interview type thing she did after when talking about the hand, i thought she came across really genuine and it was just a fuckfest that it happened that way.

Personally id like to think when Garrett weighs it all up away from the table that he would offer her the money back, not sure she would take it though. 

Everyone will have their own opinions though.

 

[philinvicta]

5 hours ago, The_Guests said:

Ive just watched Doug Polk's vid on this, and sat through 90 mins of Joey Ingrams 9.5hour livestream about it.

I have completely flipped and done a 180 on my initial thought.

At first i was like Garrett, and thought that she just HAD to be cheating to make that call. it just didnt make sense at all.

But now, having sat through her explaining it, and thinking about everything i think shes telling the truth that she misread her hand as J3. despite the fact she spent a good time looking at her cards before she made the call.

She actually had J3 in the very hand previous to this one when Joey rewound it.

When she says she put him on Ace high, it would make sense that she thought she had bottom pair.

on the turn she does say 'is a 3 good? i have a bluffcatcher'

imo she looks sheepish when she flips her cards and realises. but we can all take different views on why. she apparently told the guy running the show (i think Nick?) that she was nervous and embarrassed that she had read her hand wrong, and was only the second or 3rd time she had ever played on a live show

Also it makes zero sense to cheat this way, being 55% to 45% favourite with 1 card to come. basically cheating for a 50/50 coinflip opportunity? that makes even less sense.

offering the money back is a little suss though. But i do also get when she was giving her interview after than she just doesnt want the hassle, and i feel she knows she didnt deserve to win by misreading her hand. so that again makes sense to me if you have a degree of guilt and like fairness.

i thought her friend at the table Rick was a fucking dick though, started shouting at Garrett. 

thats my tuppence worth. I think she should be given the benefit of the doubt here, but i can understand completely why everyone thinks she cheated.

i think you should watch the interview type thing she did after when talking about the hand, i thought she came across really genuine and it was just a fuckfest that it happened that way.

Personally id like to think when Garrett weighs it all up away from the table that he would offer her the money back, not sure she would take it though. 

Everyone will have their own opinions though.

 

I understand but after all that stuff before with the gang that had hacked the automatic dealers so they knew what cards were coming you can understand why people are suspicious.

I really do not understand why she gave back the money  as she had to know that would make it look worse or why other players were happy for her to do this by taking chips off the table to do it.   In the video I posted the way she played in  this hand bears no relation to the way she had played before I know that she had only played a couple of games and maybe as with many players when they first sit in a game they may play a little differently  and tighter especially in a live stream as they do not want to look like a bad player.   I saw her play in a stream before this and she did look out of her depth     and then afterwards it turns out she is a business  partner of one of the other guys in the game   which I assume some of the players knew even if  the viewers did not.

I think the interview   was something she was asked to do by the runners of the game and producers as they could see how this was blowing up and they also want to try and protect their game. 

Also saying she is not a novice because she has 100k in tournament earnings also has little bearing to me because that  has no relevance to somebody sitting in a  big cash game especially one where someone is playing a hundred grand plus buy in  and has some top cash game players in.

I am sure we have not heard the last of this  as plenty of you tube vloggers are all looking to highlight it

 

[Guest Fudge]

6 hours ago, The_Guests said:

Also it makes zero sense to cheat this way, being 55% to 45% favourite with 1 card to come. basically cheating for a 50/50 coinflip opportunity? that makes even less sense.

 

This is something Mike Postle was doing when he cheated.

[The_Guests]

1 hour ago, Fudge said:

This is something Mike Postle was doing when he cheated.

I remember watching postle, amd I don't remember ever seeing him do what she did here with 1 card to come.

Postle knew the other players holding, so he would make bluff raises, that he knew his opponent couldn't call, or he would make a hero call on the river when he knew he was ahead and had already won the hand. 

I do remember a few hands where he would call flop and turn hoping to hit something because he knew he was behind, then either folding on river when he knew he was beat, or making a raise if he thought there was no way they would call.

I could be wrong, and you might well be right, but that's what I remember of what I saw of the postle cheating. 

I don't even think the poker god crotch cam postle would have even called this one like she did! 

[The_Guests]

1 hour ago, philinvicta said:

I understand but after all that stuff before with the gang that had hacked the automatic dealers so they knew what cards were coming you can understand why people are suspicious.

I really do not understand why she gave back the money  as she had to know that would make it look worse or why other players were happy for her to do this by taking chips off the table to do it.   In the video I posted the way she played in  this hand bears no relation to the way she had played before I know that she had only played a couple of games and maybe as with many players when they first sit in a game they may play a little differently  and tighter especially in a live stream as they do not want to look like a bad player.   I saw her play in a stream before this and she did look out of her depth     and then afterwards it turns out she is a business  partner of one of the other guys in the game   which I assume some of the players knew even if  the viewers did not.

I think the interview   was something she was asked to do by the runners of the game and producers as they could see how this was blowing up and they also want to try and protect their game. 

Also saying she is not a novice because she has 100k in tournament earnings also has little bearing to me because that  has no relevance to somebody sitting in a  big cash game especially one where someone is playing a hundred grand plus buy in  and has some top cash game players in.

I am sure we have not heard the last of this  as plenty of you tube vloggers are all looking to highlight it

 

Yep. Valid points.

I can only say what it looked like to me, and tgat she gave the money back because she was sheepish and embarrassed she misread her hand. (again despite the fact she clearly looks at her hand before she calls!, crazy I know) 

 

Picture it, you're playing on the biggest stage that you've played on livestream, and you've misread your hand and made the dumbest call that anyone's ever seen in their life, not only that but its been run twice and you've won the hand both times to scoop the whole pot. Youre embarrassed when the cards have been flipped.  The guy you beat has then started questioning you, and everything you say then makes you more flustered because its wrong as you thought you had J3, so you're trying to answer his questions honestly, but the answers are coming out wrong as you're talking about a having a completely different hand. Then you go and talk with garnett and the guy running it and just say this whole hand was a complete fuckfest and mistake by me, I'll just give the money back and we can just continue to play poker and have fun. Which garrett was going to do until her friend at the table started mouthing off. 

So i just feel its a genuine mistake for me that she was trying to make right as she didn't want to win that way.

I said it it my previous post, but she actually had J3 the previous hand that was played. 

[VillaLad]

I’m confused, how has she cheated? 

[bigbucks1983]

To me, if I have legitimately won the pot there is no way in hell I'm giving 125k back. Sod all the doesn't want the hassle nonesense, that is more than her entire career winnings. Thing is if she misread her cards, what does that matter. Take the fluke and be grateful. What I didn't like was her shit talking Garret trying to justify her play and make out she outplayed him, either she cheated or donk misclicked. 

None of it makes sense, I don't believe she cheated but I think she cheated if that makes sense. It's just stupid the way it all played out.

[VillaLad]

2 minutes ago, bigbucks1983 said:

None of it makes sense, I don't believe she cheated but I think she cheated if that makes sense

Fuck sake

I will let you know later if I can figure that out

[Guest Fudge]

Quote

She said in Joey's interview that when she checked her cards again she knew she had J4 and called anyway

I haven't watched that interview yet, but if true then J3 theory goes off the window.

[The_Guests]

one of the regulars called 'Beanz' who got her on the show phones into joey on stream, its worth hearing what he has to say. starts at 1hr 58min. talks about her play previously as well.

 

 

 

[The_Guests]

48 minutes ago, Fudge said:

I haven't watched that interview yet, but if true then J3 theory goes off the window.

not neccessarily. i think she genuinely thought she had hit that bottom pair. J3 previous hand, J4 this hand. a 3 comes on the flop and mentally she thinks she hit bottom pair in her confusion. 

Sometimes no matter how much you look at your cards after that you just cant get out of the mindset that youve hit a 2nd pair

Edited October 1, 2022 by The_Guests

[Guest Fudge]

 

Other than vibrating chair theory, I agree with Doug. About 90% chance she's cheating.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Fudge

[Guest Fudge]

If it turns out that she's a complete beginner then it's impossible to tell if there's a foul play and people should give her the benefit of the doubt. Long term, results should speak for itself. I don't see how one can be a winning poker player doing calls like that.

One of the reasons why Mike Postle was so obviously cheating was his results - he had an insane win rate.

[philinvicta]

11 hours ago, Fudge said:

 

Other than vibrating chair theory, I agree with Doug. About 90% chance she's cheating.

I have to say that after listening to Polk  I disagree with a lot of what he says and  it clearly shows how long it has been since he has been around players who are not that good a poker player and are relatively new to the game.  Her tournament earnings include 20k from a survivor  and from the earlier video the guy played with her in that tournament and said that she seemed to have no real idea of the correct plays.   Her record also seems to be relatively   short for somebody that sits at this level of cash game,   She does not seem to even have much of a cash game record either as none of these players seem to know anything about her. There is also nobody saying anything about her playing online games either. Remember playing online gets you a lot of experience quickly  as you play so many more hands than live as well as being able to multi table.  Some online cash game players will have played many times the hands that for instance Doyle Brunson has.

It seems she came out of nowhere and the guy earlier was the one who said  he was the one that recommended the big game producers approached her   which they did and it was her that then wanted to sit down with these big money buy ins.  The fact that she  was calling down with AK  is something in my past experience a lot of new players do because it is taught to them it is a "premium hand".    It is similar in a way that when we first start we call to hit gut shot straight draws or the "idiot" end of a  straight.

As I say I saw her play before that night and could see that she did not have  too much of an idea. Now I  have never played higher stakes but I have been around a lot of well known and high stakes Irish players and have seen  big games live.  I also watch a lot of online poker nowadays   now it does  not make me an expert  but I do like to think I have an objective view. Anybody who has seen some of those big cash games from Macau with the rich Chinese players  will also know that  people can make some weird plays  and calls at times when they are just there because they enjoy poker  and are not great players.

Remember how these sort of guys were more than happy to take Jamie Gold  to pieces in these cash games  even Phil Helmuth was a terrible cash game player in my opinion  but he has got a little better over  time. There was also the big "private" games that were exposed where rich poor players were taken to the cleaners. Also they were more than happy to let Celine Dion's   husband sit down and play with them and he lost millions because he was out of his depth.

Also with the length of time to fold the j8 hand against the house when you know you are going to fold as you have nothing this is often used by tournament players to see if they can get something that may give them a clue as to what to do if they are in a hand against the same player at another time

I would say that one thing the likes of Sam Trickett and Tom Dwan learnt pretty quickly  was not to try and bluff these guys of hands where they might call you. I remember they also said that if you just sat there looking to pick these guys off  and  were not prepared to gamble you would soon be left off the invite list.

At the end of the day as shocked as I was to see the hand where she called  at the same time it is up to people to prove she cheated   and I feel that Garrett should hand back the money she returned to him and if as I suspect she does not want it then he gives it to a charity of her choice.

 

It was also said that she is married to a very rich lawyer  hence  Polk's reference to the buckle up post. Polk also knows how to avoid saying something that will get him sued for slander  all well covered by the "in my opinion"   that protects a lot of people in USA under their laws.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by philinvicta

[Rocknrolla]

Still can't get my head round this one, there's just so much on both sides that just doesn't make any sense?!! The stories keep changing as well, it appears now that she didnt offer the money back but Garret did actually ask for it which now hasnt done him any favours as why lie?!

I believe in always not guilty until proven otherwise but she also hasn't helped herself with all this and just comes across as not having a clue when according to her backround she should, she's now explaining in indepth poker lingo detail about the hand (obvs prepped) when at the time she came across as clueless when explaining her thought process behind each stage of the hand. There's so much I could go into but I feel like a machine continuously malfunctioning when trying to compute it all.

I just hope the outcome is conclusive but I also think that if it Hustler say they found no evidence of cheating that some including Garret who has a big influence in the poker world, would still not accept it and she could be tainted with this for life.

[ColourMeUp]

45 minutes ago, Rocknrolla said:

Still can't get my head round this one, there's just so much on both sides that just doesn't make any sense?!! The stories keep changing as well, it appears now that she didnt offer the money back but Garret did actually ask for it which now hasnt done him any favours as why lie?!

I believe in always not guilty until proven otherwise but she also hasn't helped herself with all this and just comes across as not having a clue when according to her backround she should, she's now explaining in indepth poker lingo detail about the hand (obvs prepped) when at the time she came across as clueless when explaining her thought process behind each stage of the hand. There's so much I could go into but I feel like a machine continuously malfunctioning when trying to compute it all.

I just hope the outcome is conclusive but I also think that if it Hustler say they found no evidence of cheating that some including Garret who has a big influence in the poker world, would still not accept it and she could be tainted with this for life.

I play a lot of cash games, somewhere in the region of 75-100k hands/month and even at my stakes of $2/5 & $5/10, the punters that come and play don't make plays like she did. 

I happened to be watching it live when it happened and the thing that stood out the most to me was her body language, Imo she looked guilty af, made worse of course by her speech whilst trying to justify her play. 

Garret is as honest as you'll find in the poker world and I'd bet anything that if she's found innocent he'll return the money. 

[philinvicta]

11 hours ago, ColourMeUp said:

I play a lot of cash games, somewhere in the region of 75-100k hands/month and even at my stakes of $2/5 & $5/10, the punters that come and play don't make plays like she did. 

I happened to be watching it live when it happened and the thing that stood out the most to me was her body language, Imo she looked guilty af, made worse of course by her speech whilst trying to justify her play. 

Garret is as honest as you'll find in the poker world and I'd bet anything that if she's found innocent he'll return the money. 

I have not seen someone look as shocked as Garrett for a long time when she showed her hand.  I think he was still shocked and events all happened too quickly but under no circumstances should he ever have asked her for her money back. and put her in a terrible position considering who he is  and the fact that she is a newcomer trying to establish herself.

In my opinion this does not reflect well on him at all.

Also it is interesting that some of the other players in the game such as Phil Ivy have not said anything yet you have other players who were not even there mouthing off like Polk  as though what they say has any relevance and all they are doing is trying to boost their own profiles on the back of it.

[ColourMeUp]

2 hours ago, philinvicta said:

I have not seen someone look as shocked as Garrett for a long time when she showed her hand.  I think he was still shocked and events all happened too quickly but under no circumstances should he ever have asked her for her money back. and put her in a terrible position considering who he is  and the fact that she is a newcomer trying to establish herself.

In my opinion this does not reflect well on him at all.

Also it is interesting that some of the other players in the game such as Phil Ivy have not said anything yet you have other players who were not even there mouthing off like Polk  as though what they say has any relevance and all they are doing is trying to boost their own profiles on the back of it.

I think overall its not a good look for anyone involved as well as poker in general. I think in terms of the money it would've been better off being held in escrow until everything was scrutinised and an investigation concluded, I'm aware that LA law may make that not viable tbf. 

As far as Ivey etc commenting, not surprised he hasn't, typically keeps himself to himself and couldn't give 2  hoots about drama like this. 

Polk is an egocentric who loves to comment on anything and everything, just doing it for the views and clicks as you say. 

[bigbucks1983]

The more I see on this the more ridiculous it becomes and I actually think the biggest balls up was by hustler casino. With such a serious allegation I think they should have suspended the stream temporarily and began an investigation then. Instead they have just let it evolve into a cluster fuck. Garret hasn't said anymore and I'd expect some sort of statement soon, I get he might have acted out of character at the time but I also don't think he bullied her regarding giving the money back but his silence is letting her need the narrative. I heard her semi explanation to Joey Ingram today and I still don't think she made any sense, I don't think she knows what she is trying to say.

[Guest Fudge]

[Guest Fudge]

Graphics technician for HCL livestream fired for taking $15k chips off Robbi's stack.

95% she cheated.