TORYS OUT!!

[crazyrightmeow]

1 minute ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Look how much the US has given to Ukraine, the money they sent to that corrupt shithole could have fixed the toxic water in Flint Mitchigan or the hurricane damage to Pureto Rico, same for the billions we sent over, the money could be put to better use at home.

This is how the US rolls, they make a conflict or they at least push it some way. They help destroy everything and they lend money, military equipment and everything to them and later they get paid back with huge % for the next 50 years and have a new puppet country basically. They already have 80% of the EU under the thumb.

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

Just now, crazyrightmeow said:

This is how the US rolls, they make a conflict or they at least push it some way. They help destroy everything and they lend money, military equipment and everything to them and later they get paid back with huge % for the next 50 years and have a new puppet country basically. They already have 80% of the EU under the thumb.

Look at the recent Nordstream 1 and 2 pipeline sabotage, they are trying to make out it was Putin when he controls the spigot and can turn off the gas at the flick of a switch, it's also his best bargaining chip to get Europe to lift sanctions, you do this and the gas can get turned back on.  Somebody has taken action to ensure this is no longer an option, Europe is to have a cold de-industrialised winter   If you follow the money it leads to the US, they get to sell their product even though it's vastly more epensive and a most dangerous scenario is they are trying to stoke another war where they can sit back while Europe destroys itself and they can emerge unscathed as top dog when the dust settles.  The EU is only being controlled by a handful of indiividuals, probably only 3 EU bigwigs and the German Chancellor so they took steps to ensure there was no reversing course.  That new Italian leader does not appear to be a WEF stooge, that won't go down well.

[crazyrightmeow]

3 minutes ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Look at the recent Nordstream 1 and 2 pipeline sabotage, they are trying to make out it was Putin when he controls the spigot and can turn off the gas at the flick of a switch, it's also his best bargaining chip to get Europe to lift sanctions, you do this and the gas can get turned back on.  Somebody has taken action to ensure this is no longer an option, Europe is to have a cold de-industrialised winter   If you follow the money it leads to the US, they get to sell their product even though it's vastly more epensive and a most dangerous scenario is they are trying to stoke another war where they can sit back while Europe destroys itself and they can emerge unscathed as top dog when the dust settles.  The EU is only being controlled by a handful of indiividuals, probably only 3 EU bigwigs and the German Chancellor so they took steps to ensure there was no reversing course.  That new Italian leader does not appear to be a WEF stooge, that won't go down well.

I also thought about self sabotage but It could be any of them because it could benefit many parties other than us normal people. Its all just a show and we are at their mercy. I still say the only problem for US is China and they cant do much about that. They will destroy EU tho.

[IndridCold]

Its a race to the bottom.

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

Here's something I don't understand - if the government are going to cover all energy bills above £2,500 then what's to stop people who are at this 2.5k threshold booting the arse out of this?  If I have to pay this and the government will cover everything over it then I might as well have every heater in the house on full bung, every light on 24 hours a day, I might even get into crypto mining or growing some weed.

[Gkell727]

I hate being right all the time 

[Blacko]

11 minutes ago, Gkell727 said:

I hate being right all the time 

Well you are right this time my friend , never mind every cloud has a silver lining.. Virgin airlines have announced that they have given male pilots permission to wear skirts to "reveal their new identity".. doesn't that news make us all feel fucking better tonight 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Blacko

[philinvicta]

49 minutes ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Here's something I don't understand - if the government are going to cover all energy bills above £2,500 then what's to stop people who are at this 2.5k threshold booting the arse out of this?  If I have to pay this and the government will cover everything over it then I might as well have every heater in the house on full bung, every light on 24 hours a day, I might even get into crypto mining or growing some weed.

the bills are not capped at 2500  the 2500 is based on a certain usage at a certain price to give the cap.   The cap  then gives a unit price if you use a lot more electric you will pay for it,  I think Liz Truss also misunderstood this fact. explanation from BBC website

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58090533

The price is now fixed  and it means any market price above the cap is paid by the government to the electric company instead of the consumer paying it.   If prices go up then the government pays more to the electric company but the consumers unit price stays fixed.  This is why the government is on the hook for an unknown amount of debt to pay for the capped bills I believe current estimates are in excess of 150 billion.

It is high risk and a bet that prices will not go up much further on the market.

My prices are due to increase by around 45%  here in Ireland on October  1st.  This is after  several price rises  over the last year.  It is also why we are getting sums of money and not capped prices  as the government here is not prepared to bring in measures they do not know the cost of.

The other problem with capped prices is as you imply it will not push people to cut back on usage  as the price per unit they pay is fixed whereas if they were paying higher prices they might cut back more and this means the excess paid by the government  will off course be higher

[philinvicta]

47 minutes ago, Blacko said:

Well you are right this time my friend , never mind every cloud has a silver lining.. Virgin airlines have announced that they have given male pilots permission to wear skirts to "reveal their new identity".. doesn't that news make us all feel fucking better tonight 

I am sure they will be dancing down the aisles with joy !

Edited September 28, 2022 by philinvicta

[MrUKHackz]

2 hours ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Here's something I don't understand - if the government are going to cover all energy bills above £2,500 then what's to stop people who are at this 2.5k threshold booting the arse out of this?  If I have to pay this and the government will cover everything over it then I might as well have every heater in the house on full bung, every light on 24 hours a day, I might even get into crypto mining or growing some weed.

Like @philinvicta said above it's not like that, its based on the average use per household, my usage is already over £2,500 with the £1,900 price cap that we are on presently, its the word "cap" that's misleading.

[ISlot]

15 hours ago, philinvicta said:

I saw a piece on Bloomberg where they said that all the pensioners who followed "sound advice" to put their pension funds in to guilts to protect the funds before you retire had lost  around 30 per cent of their funds so far this year  this would have been done automatically for anyone who does not manage their own pension fund.  It said that UK pension funds had lost around a trillion pounds  so far this year.. Because of likely much higher interest rates being required  and mortgages being withdrawn  that their likely other major asset of their house was also likely to fall in value.

Another thing I saw was despite the tax reduction  somebody with a mortgage of 250k  coming off a low fixed rate could see interest rates going up over 6%  early next year meaning a  huge increase in their mortgage payments  far higher than any tax reduction they were going to get.

Here in Ireland there was a budget yesterday and it was a huge hand out to people including  double benefit weeks  electricity credits and tax rebates,  The difference was this was coming from a position of surplus.  It has also been decided that Ireland will not go to the markets in the 4th Qtr to sell bonds as thanks to a surplus  and not the predicted deficit  they have current needs covered. The UK is going to have to borrow money to fund its deficit  and due to Kwarteng  the rates are going to be huge.

I could not believe it when Kwarteng last week said he did not care if the markets liked his budget  and were falling . Where did he think he was going to have to go to get the money to fund his budget deficits,  I saw a Cambridge economist professor  say she totally disagreed with his budget and she  was embarrassed to think he got his degree there.

The Bank Of England had to step in today as many pension funds were being forced to liquidate assets at big losses  due to regulations thus pushing Gilts (Government Bonds)  even lower and thus the interest rate higher.

I cannot believe that such a cock up could be so easily achieved   and no doubt  stories will eventually come from the treasury saying he would just not listen to advice and was determined to carry on with his plan.

Another piece said that if it was not controlled then even things like the NHS  were  in danger of failing.

I saw that he said that the abolishing of the 45% tax rate brought the UK into line  with Ireland which is mad because we have a marginal top rate of 52%  on high earners.(Tax 40%  PRSI(national insurance)  4%  and a Universal Social Charge 8%).   Also Social Security   and supports  as well as Pensions are far higher in Ireland and he seems determined  to reduce the UK support for those poorer in society.  It is just wrong that it is up to the population  to set up supports such as food banks just so people can feed their families and the government do not see fit to step in and make sure people can survive.    Many of the people using these places are working as well  which is madness.

No wonder Labour have such a large lead in the Polls.

45% is crazy, in Guernsey companies is zero tax, and Income tax is flat 20%

[Solario333]

I must say I am utterly disgusted that rich people should benefit from the largesse of our current government and abhor the new economic policy which will run aground sooner than later due to complete imbecility by the incumbent chancellor , and narrow vested interest by Thatcher 2 , or Liz Truss.... myopic and greedy to give the rich at the expense of the many ........ and pensioners, as I am, are bereft as money buys less and less each moment and billions are wasted propping up guilts so that the house of cards does not collapse . Well it will be the sheer stupidity of the few that cause the many to say --thats enough . And no doubt the next goverment under the new blairite Starmer will absolutely complete the foolishness by not fulfilling any of his righteous promises but just filling his personal pockets with cash just like Tony Blair . What a shower of idiots we have !!!

Edited September 29, 2022 by Solario333

[crazyrightmeow]

Picture tells you everything you need to know if you still have some logic left. Keep putting sanctions on Russia and listen to daddy US.

Edited September 29, 2022 by crazyrightmeow

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

3 hours ago, ISlot said:

45% is crazy, in Guernsey companies is zero tax, and Income tax is flat 20%

In Russia the tax rate is 13% for anyone earning less than 5 million Roubles (about 80 and and a half grand in GBP) and 15% for everyone earning more than this.

[bigbucks1983]

5 hours ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

In Russia the tax rate is 13% for anyone earning less than 5 million Roubles (about 80 and and a half grand in GBP) and 15% for everyone earning more than this.

Someone has a serious hard on for Russia. No need to push it at every opportuniski comrade. 

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

Just now, bigbucks1983 said:

Someone has a serious hard on for Russia. No need to push it at every opportuniski comrade. 

You got me, I am clearly a Putin stooge.

[bigbucks1983]

The ridiculous thing about this is they have frozen the tax free earnings again. If they were so desperate to help people and burn billions they would have just increased it so everyone will see the same benefit. Instead of giving billions to the top, give it to the millions. 

[bigbucks1983]

On 28/09/2022 at 16:25, philinvicta said:

 could not believe it when Kwarteng last week said he did not care if the markets liked his budget  and were falling . Where did he think he was going to have to go to get the money to fund his budget deficits,  I saw a Cambridge economist professor  say she totally disagreed with his budget and she  was embarrassed to think he got his degree there.

Even when the world screamed lunacy, the IMF told the man he is a moron and strongly advised he reversed the decision he doubled down and said no, we are going ahead with this. The ineptitude of the man and arrogance to think you know better than every expert globally astounds and scares me. The fact no one will pull rank and say no, this is stupid is ridiculous. Reverse the budget and fuck him off. Even if reversed the economy will suffer, reputation and faith in the pound will be lost but at least it will be damage limitation.

And I haven't seen anything today but where the hell is Truss? Done a proper disappearing act.

[philinvicta]

28 minutes ago, bigbucks1983 said:

Even when the world screamed lunacy, the IMF told the man he is a moron and strongly advised he reversed the decision he doubled down and said no, we are going ahead with this. The ineptitude of the man and arrogance to think you know better than every expert globally astounds and scares me. The fact no one will pull rank and say no, this is stupid is ridiculous. Reverse the budget and fuck him off. Even if reversed the economy will suffer, reputation and faith in the pound will be lost but at least it will be damage limitation.

And I haven't seen anything today but where the hell is Truss? Done a proper disappearing act.

Truss was also doing the rounds saying it was not going to be reversed and it was the right thing to do.

I heard Kwarteng say people will be thousands better off  but they will not be if mortgage rates go up to 7% or higher because of his policies and it will not just be higher rate payers who will be a lot worse off but everyone. The higher paid may save 5 per cent on their tax but they are more likely to be the ones with a very big mortgage.   I saw people talking of selling up  because they will not  be able to pay the mortgage at higher rates but the point is they will not be able to pay rents either, many could find themselves moving from a house they owned to an apartment they are still struggling  to survive in.    Banks and other mortgage lenders would have done stress tests but nothing would have been tested with regards to rates moving up this quickly.  Normally rates would go up over a longer period and people would get pay rises to offset some of the increase. There could be  a lot of repossessions  in 2 or 3 years time  it will be back to the time when Barclays was the biggest property owner in the country after so much stuff had to be repossessed both houses and commercial.

The other thing is the way Truss and Kwarteng keep saying that all economies are in the same boat and it is down to the Ukrainian invasion  by Russia is just false I believe.  Many of these problems were starting before that and  the fall out  has just really rammed it home  and things will not get better even if Russia left all Ukrainian territory in the morning.   We are still to see what happens with regards much lower food production as most fertiliser factories in Europe are shut down because of high gas prices which is a double whammy as a lot of the fertiliser was produced in Russia and Ukraine because they had gas supplies to make it and ship it around Europe and the world.

Truss and Kwarteng really do not seem to understand that the only reason the Bank of England stepped in yesterday was to stop the spiral of falling prices of long guilts in the 30 years and up outstanding   because they  were worried that a good few pension schemes were going to collapse and not to bring interest rates back down. Long guilts are also influential on the mortgage rates which is why so many mortgage products were withdrawn As a result of the extra money they budget put in to the economy and the fact they have to pump 5 billion a day into the guilts market instead of taking money out of the system the Bank of England  is going to have to raise interest rates  even higher to try and get inflation under control.

 It is madness that these two were voted to be in charge by the tory party and nothing can be done to get them out and get some one in who has an idea of economic facts of life.  They are good friends and close political allies and it is being said she will not sack him and like you say they seem to be oblivious to what they are being told by IMF  and also from the markets. The pound has recovered a little ground against  the dollar and other currencies  but that is probably because people are expecting interest rates to go up more quickly and to a higher level.   It has also highlighted that central banks around the world are going to have to tighten much harder  even Germany today reported inflation at over 10 per cent and we know how much they hate inflation which is why low inflation is a cornerstone of EU and ECB policy. Stock  markets around the world are falling  and there are no safe havens as gold is falling as it does not pay interest   guilts are falling   and commodities are falling because recessions are coming.  There is an awful lot of money running for cash which is also becoming worth less due to high inflation.

At the end of the day it will be the working man who will likely suffer most with much higher living costs  less job security and wondering how to keep food on the table and the family warm.

 

 

[Guest Fudge]

7 hours ago, crazyrightmeow said:

Picture tells you everything you need to know if you still have some logic left. Keep putting sanctions on Russia and listen to daddy US.

Do you ever think of what will happen if Ukraine gets completely invaded and putin has green light to do anything he wants or it's all about your mining profits going to shit?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Fudge

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

 

31 minutes ago, Fudge said:

Do you ever think of what will happen if Ukraine gets completely invaded and putin has green light to do anything he wants or it's all about your mining profits going to shit?

This is nothing to do with Putin or covid these were both just handy excuses to cover decades of money printing and poor fiscal policy.  The banking system broke in 2008, Jim Rickards is on the monetary wargaming board for the US which wargames currency battles in order to preserve the US Dollar, he says after the effects of the sub prime market collapsing hit they were minutes away from pulling the plug on the entire Western financial system, pensions gone, ATMs all to close etc, everybodys assets in the bank wiped out.  But the decision was made to have central banks bail out the commercial banks so the public bailed out all  these failed criminal banking institutions and allowed them to carry on with their criminality and bad practices.

You know the rest, all the central banks began a policy of QE (money printing) and interest rates went from a nominal 6% to 0% or next to zero and anyone with savings now had no yield and their income was clobbered.  Pension and insurance companies who relied on these interest rates for their yield had to divert to riskier and riskier holdings just to be able to make enough yield to operate.With interest rates at zero it because so easy for the big corporations and powerful entities to borrow money for buy outs, carve ups, anything that needed bought off, bribed or cohersed was now so cheap to do, a lot of companies just borrowed money to buy up their own stock rather than invest in better practices or the future.  This is why absolutely nothing is real any longer.

Moving forward to today and it's all the central banks and entire nations that are insolvent, there is no more room to kick the can down and all the infinite money created can only chase a finite amount of assets. - this is why inflation is biting so hard and the traditional way to combat inflation is to raise rates.  All these people that got used to the 0% or near 0% interest rates can't handle this, all the people who took out cheap debt now have expensive debt and that includes all those companies doing the stock buy back grift, they will now begin shedding staff and they they will go under.  Government debt is also too massive to live with increased rates and the BOE is the first one to begin QE again but they will all do it shortly, I give it until March and the EU, Japan and finally the US will all have pivoted back to QE.  Another problem compounding matters is nobody wants to buy any Western debt any more, the trust is gone, all the countries that were holding trillions of Dollars got a wake up call that if the plan to shut down the system in 2008 had gone ahead they would have lost everything, this is why countries are reduced to buying their own treasury bonds.

Incidently there is legislation in many countries including the EU that pension companies must hold a certain amount in government bonds.  This might sound tinfoil hat and might be another of my conspiracy theories but it looks like Europe is being sacrificed for Dollar hegemony by the handful of powerful entities that do very well out of the Dollar. And finally when the US pivots and begins printing again everything is going to explode higher again including cryptos as all that newly created currency is going to have to go somewhere.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Mad Slasher McGurk

[bigbucks1983]

1 hour ago, philinvicta said:

Truss was also doing the rounds saying it was not going to be reversed and it was the right thing to do.

I heard Kwarteng say people will be thousands better off  but they will not be if mortgage rates go up to 7% or higher because of his policies and it will not just be higher rate payers who will be a lot worse off but everyone. The higher paid may save 5 per cent on their tax but they are more likely to be the ones with a very big mortgage.   I saw people talking of selling up  because they will not  be able to pay the mortgage at higher rates but the point is they will not be able to pay rents either, many could find themselves moving from a house they owned to an apartment they are still struggling  to survive in.    Banks and other mortgage lenders would have done stress tests but nothing would have been tested with regards to rates moving up this quickly.  Normally rates would go up over a longer period and people would get pay rises to offset some of the increase. There could be  a lot of repossessions  in 2 or 3 years time  it will be back to the time when Barclays was the biggest property owner in the country after so much stuff had to be repossessed both houses and commercial.

The other thing is the way Truss and Kwarteng keep saying that all economies are in the same boat and it is down to the Ukrainian invasion  by Russia is just false I believe.  Many of these problems were starting before that and  the fall out  has just really rammed it home  and things will not get better even if Russia left all Ukrainian territory in the morning.   We are still to see what happens with regards much lower food production as most fertiliser factories in Europe are shut down because of high gas prices which is a double whammy as a lot of the fertiliser was produced in Russia and Ukraine because they had gas supplies to make it and ship it around Europe and the world.

Truss and Kwarteng really do not seem to understand that the only reason the Bank of England stepped in yesterday was to stop the spiral of falling prices of long guilts in the 30 years and up outstanding   because they  were worried that a good few pension schemes were going to collapse and not to bring interest rates back down. Long guilts are also influential on the mortgage rates which is why so many mortgage products were withdrawn As a result of the extra money they budget put in to the economy and the fact they have to pump 5 billion a day into the guilts market instead of taking money out of the system the Bank of England  is going to have to raise interest rates  even higher to try and get inflation under control.

 It is madness that these two were voted to be in charge by the tory party and nothing can be done to get them out and get some one in who has an idea of economic facts of life.  They are good friends and close political allies and it is being said she will not sack him and like you say they seem to be oblivious to what they are being told by IMF  and also from the markets. The pound has recovered a little ground against  the dollar and other currencies  but that is probably because people are expecting interest rates to go up more quickly and to a higher level.   It has also highlighted that central banks around the world are going to have to tighten much harder  even Germany today reported inflation at over 10 per cent and we know how much they hate inflation which is why low inflation is a cornerstone of EU and ECB policy. Stock  markets around the world are falling  and there are no safe havens as gold is falling as it does not pay interest   guilts are falling   and commodities are falling because recessions are coming.  There is an awful lot of money running for cash which is also becoming worth less due to high inflation.

At the end of the day it will be the working man who will likely suffer most with much higher living costs  less job security and wondering how to keep food on the table and the family warm.

 

 

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. Someone earning 35k will only be around 350 PER YEAR better off, even if a household has two earners they might be 700 a year better off. If mortgages become 400 a month more expensive or 4800 a year then there is the massive hole. People were going to be pushed into poverty due to energy prices, even with the cap. People will now lose there home which is a travesty when the rich benefit the most, the rich who likely don't have mortgages anyway.

My mortgage is locked for another 3 years but if things get bad enough I will have to consider selling up and moving me and my family in with my mum. Having that option makes me extremely lucky as many will end up losing everything.

With the government being told to make cuts to spending there will inevitably jobs cut, what use is a tax reduction if you have no job. At the moment the outlook is grim, I just hope something radical is done to correct this catastrophe. And even if it is, there is enough damage done already that we are all going to feel the pinch for a few years to come.

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

The world has never been where it currently is today, recessions, depressions, hyper inflations have happened but they only hit a handful of countries at any one time everyone else was fine, never has an inflationary depression hit just about all of them at the same time. - The greatest depression.

[crazyrightmeow]

1 hour ago, Fudge said:

Do you ever think of what will happen if Ukraine gets completely invaded and putin has green light to do anything he wants or it's all about your mining profits going to shit?

You watch too much TV mate. They have you exactly where they want to. Ukraine is a lost cause anyway and has no significant consequences for the rest of the world no matter who runs it. With this bullshit that is happening now its a good deal for USA. EU goes to shit, dollar goes up, they have free testing for their weapons and collect all the money after all this is over from lending money and military help. Its a cycle that happened before many times, just not so close to us. No one gave a fuck before so why now all the panic? Oh because media is telling you so.

What will happened if Russia gets Ukraine or at least some part of it? Nothing drastic really, people will have to get over it and will live on. Its not the first time something like this happened as well.

[Guest Fudge]

56 minutes ago, crazyrightmeow said:

You watch too much TV mate. They have you exactly where they want to. Ukraine is a lost cause anyway and has no significant consequences for the rest of the world no matter who runs it. With this bullshit that is happening now its a good deal for USA. EU goes to shit, dollar goes up, they have free testing for their weapons and collect all the money after all this is over from lending money and military help. Its a cycle that happened before many times, just not so close to us. No one gave a fuck before so why now all the panic? Oh because media is telling you so.

What will happened if Russia gets Ukraine or at least some part of it? Nothing drastic really, people will have to get over it and will live on. Its not the first time something like this happened as well.

Keep the same energy if someone is beating the shit out of you and no one goes to help you.

I don't watch TV at all, but I do follow what is happening in Ukraine very closely.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Fudge