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Rocknrolla

Gambling: A Game of Life and Death

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On 21/07/2022 at 09:07, Chair Slots said:

Was gonna post this on here as it was on. Good docu, didn’t just deal with the same old issues these docs usually do.

There are so many reasons why I think this is the best documentary on gambling I've seen.

It looked at ordinary people rather than ex footballers or celebs, so people could relate more.

It showed their stories from the beginning, showing their triggers and mostly told from the friends and the families perspectives so that anyone who didnt realise can now maybe spot potential triggers in others. It also showed the real reactions of friends when you let them down because of money, rather than maybe seeing something might be wrong or give support like maybe they would if there was a drug issue they reacted like most would with anger. Or like the sister said she was relieved when she found out it was 'just' a gambling problem.

I think the main public that don't know about it all or dont see it as an issue will now be more aware that it can be a real problem and be wary of it when it comes to those around them. I just hope the documentary gets the views it deserves

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Rocknrolla said:

There are so many reasons why I think this is the best documentary on gambling I've seen.

It looked at ordinary people rather than ex footballers or celebs, so people could relate more.

It showed their stories from the beginning, showing their triggers and mostly told from the friends and the families perspectives so that anyone who didnt realise can now maybe spot potential triggers in others. It also showed the real reactions of friends when you let them down because of money, rather than maybe seeing something might be wrong or give support like maybe they would if there was a drug issue they reacted like most would with anger. Or like the sister said she was relieved when she found out it was 'just' a gambling problem.

I think the main public that don't know about it all or dont see it as an issue will now be more aware that it can be a real problem and be wary of it when it comes to those around them. I just hope the documentary gets the views it deserves

The people that surround a problem gambler or drug user or alcoholic will only really provide support for a limited time,   a kind of 2 or 3 strikes and you are out scenario 

If your messing up over and over and over again that drifts into years,  the surrounding people just get tired of the stories. 

How many hardened gamblers have really good support around them ?  

Edited by Bangers
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8 minutes ago, Bangers said:

The people that surround a problem gambler or drug user or alcoholic will only really provide support for a limited time,   a kind of 2 or 3 strikes and you are out scenario 

If your messing up over and over and over again that drifts into years,  the surrounding people just get tired of the stories. 

How many hardened gamblers have really good support around them ?  

I used to know a real compulsive gambler. He would literally sell everything he owned to get money. Everyone knew, but there was no real support. It was more a case of resignation regarding his situation.  Nobody, even his own family trusted him

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3 minutes ago, david1111 said:

I used to know a real compulsive gambler. He would literally sell everything he owned to get money. Everyone knew, but there was no real support. It was more a case of resignation regarding his situation.  Nobody, even his own family trusted him

The levels do fascinate me a bit 

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13 hours ago, Rocknrolla said:

There are so many reasons why I think this is the best documentary on gambling I've seen.

It looked at ordinary people rather than ex footballers or celebs, so people could relate more.

It showed their stories from the beginning, showing their triggers and mostly told from the friends and the families perspectives so that anyone who didnt realise can now maybe spot potential triggers in others. It also showed the real reactions of friends when you let them down because of money, rather than maybe seeing something might be wrong or give support like maybe they would if there was a drug issue they reacted like most would with anger. Or like the sister said she was relieved when she found out it was 'just' a gambling problem.

I think the main public that don't know about it all or dont see it as an issue will now be more aware that it can be a real problem and be wary of it when it comes to those around them. I just hope the documentary gets the views it deserves

Totally agree. It was also nice not to hear the bookies’ side of the story for once, with the same old PR bollocks and twisted stats. Was very raw and real. I’d love to sit a viewer of these crypto streamers down and make them watch that doc. Show them the reality of it all.

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10 hours ago, Bangers said:

The people that surround a problem gambler or drug user or alcoholic will only really provide support for a limited time,   a kind of 2 or 3 strikes and you are out scenario 

If your messing up over and over and over again that drifts into years,  the surrounding people just get tired of the stories. 

How many hardened gamblers have really good support around them ?  

True 

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Just now, Rocknrolla said:

True 

When Jack was sitting at the end holding the baby with the other lads,   7 Dads as the fella put it,  MMmmmm was pretty touching 

Seen a good few of similar type shows, sadly they'll be more in the future 

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On 21/07/2022 at 20:55, david1111 said:

Even as a child the bright lights of the seaside amusements used to grab my attention. 

The highs and lows are as you say, but the highs were like a drug, just the feeling of invincibility.

As you will probably know I'm on gamstop, but would not go down the crypto route as I don't trust them. I still receive several weekly texts from non gamstop casinos trying to lure me in which I find disgusting. 

At the end of the day it's all about keeping the demons suppressed but we all know they can rise to the surface at anytime which takes huge self control.  🎅 

I had a huge moment of realisation in May about the seaside arcades. We had taken my 3 year old on a camping holiday, same place wwe had been in September. On the site they have an arcade you play games, win the tickets and save them up for a shitty toy or whatever. You know like 3million tickets for a £5 slinky pr whatever. She was fine with playing them in September, couple of quid on the games, win a few tickets and she was done. Well this year, where she's ddeveloped and understands more, the tantrums she threw when she she was told she couldnt play more were awful. One day we were on the seafront and walked past an arcade, I said she couldn't go in and she had such a meltdown. She's a good girl, never really loses it like that and I realised right then that these games were getting to her the same way as FOBTs do to adults. She didnt care what she played, she just wanted the tickets. The thing is, as a gambler, I could see what was happening and after was really careful about letting her play and nipping it in the bud. How many other parents won't though? Understandably, a lot, they don't see the foundations of addiction being laid. I felt terrible to be honest that I'd let it happen, seeing the signs in a 3 years old was quite sobering.

The frustrating thing is, the UKGC and government are putting in so many restrictions to stop people gambling excessively etc but they should be spending more time in educating children about it, stopping them being exposed to it. Computer games, trading cards, arcade tickets, all these things should be addressed to stop the next generation becoming the problem.

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20 minutes ago, bigbucks1983 said:

I had a huge moment of realisation in May about the seaside arcades. We had taken my 3 year old on a camping holiday, same place wwe had been in September. On the site they have an arcade you play games, win the tickets and save them up for a shitty toy or whatever. You know like 3million tickets for a £5 slinky pr whatever. She was fine with playing them in September, couple of quid on the games, win a few tickets and she was done. Well this year, where she's ddeveloped and understands more, the tantrums she threw when she she was told she couldnt play more were awful. One day we were on the seafront and walked past an arcade, I said she couldn't go in and she had such a meltdown. She's a good girl, never really loses it like that and I realised right then that these games were getting to her the same way as FOBTs do to adults. She didnt care what she played, she just wanted the tickets. The thing is, as a gambler, I could see what was happening and after was really careful about letting her play and nipping it in the bud. How many other parents won't though? Understandably, a lot, they don't see the foundations of addiction being laid. I felt terrible to be honest that I'd let it happen, seeing the signs in a 3 years old was quite sobering.

The frustrating thing is, the UKGC and government are putting in so many restrictions to stop people gambling excessively etc but they should be spending more time in educating children about it, stopping them being exposed to it. Computer games, trading cards, arcade tickets, all these things should be addressed to stop the next generation becoming the problem.

Been through all much of the same bar the tantrums, I loved they crane machines and so would always have a go when on holiday ''mostly Blackpool''  one year was nuts, went down with my Bro and his Mrs but me and my Bro won't just play any game we'll have a really good look and size up the cabinet, pal of mine knows a few people that serviced they machines and over the years he's owned various pinball machines and games cabinets, the workings of them are pretty basic anyWHO - one year in Blackpool we were winning crazy amounts of soft toys, you name it we won it but after a while it just didn't mean anything, she would just hand the toy to my bro's Mrs and then move onto another machine, sure it was a giggle at the time but it was easy to see we were sewing seeds and the toys had little value,  it was just about gathering in as much as possible.

She does however understand the value of money and respects it a lot more than I do,  and today if we get a casino night she's the sensible one, she done just shy of 5 years at Uni studying psychology so has a real understanding on how some of my own head works more than I do. 

Those games or the similar styles can for sure be the starting line for some people, we get our first experience of winning something, after that,  who knows where the journey can end. 

The image below was just from day one, I think that year we defo held some kind of Blackpool record,  but the toys we won did cost about 32k in total  😓

Funny when you win they toys then you walk into a nearby market and see the same toy for £1.99 

 

 

20220724_114035.jpg

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On 24/07/2022 at 11:49, Bangers said:

Been through all much of the same bar the tantrums, I loved they crane machines and so would always have a go when on holiday ''mostly Blackpool''  one year was nuts, went down with my Bro and his Mrs but me and my Bro won't just play any game we'll have a really good look and size up the cabinet, pal of mine knows a few people that serviced they machines and over the years he's owned various pinball machines and games cabinets, the workings of them are pretty basic anyWHO - one year in Blackpool we were winning crazy amounts of soft toys, you name it we won it but after a while it just didn't mean anything, she would just hand the toy to my bro's Mrs and then move onto another machine, sure it was a giggle at the time but it was easy to see we were sewing seeds and the toys had little value,  it was just about gathering in as much as possible.

She does however understand the value of money and respects it a lot more than I do,  and today if we get a casino night she's the sensible one, she done just shy of 5 years at Uni studying psychology so has a real understanding on how some of my own head works more than I do. 

Those games or the similar styles can for sure be the starting line for some people, we get our first experience of winning something, after that,  who knows where the journey can end. 

The image below was just from day one, I think that year we defo held some kind of Blackpool record,  but the toys we won did cost about 32k in total  😓

Funny when you win they toys then you walk into a nearby market and see the same toy for £1.99 

 

 

20220724_114035.jpg

I hate those grabber machines. They give the same sense of a near miss as gambling does which they've proven is what leads to addiction. I remember one night years ago me and some mates went to Brighton for my birthday. We hit the arcades for a bit before we went out. Anyway one mate wins one of those 5 foot teddies, the machine malfunctioned and he blagged he should have won. My bro then decided he wanted one for his kid and spent the next hour and all his beer tokens trying to do so. He was literally on tilt the same as he would be losing on roulette or something. Boys night out and he got caught up chasing a bloody stuffed toy.

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9 minutes ago, bigbucks1983 said:

Boys night out and he got caught up chasing a bloody stuffed toy.

It's that same chase Eh!

Ever see the massive crane ones,  like a massive glass box you could stand in ? 

I stuck £5 in one of them for 5 goes and Won two massive dogs back to back 

My daughter was walking around the local theme park with one under each arm lol 

One of them is still on top of my mums wardrobe,  my daughters mum binned the one she took home that day saying it annoyed her as it had glitter all over it.

Bitch! 

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I honestly don't know any people who would take things out of their house or sell them to play. The whole world of gambling has a very fine line. There are so many different kinds of games. Somebody plays in the casino in Las Vegas smoking a cigar, and surely if this person loses some amount, he's not going to kill and go sell, because people who play in casinos in Las Vegas have a lot of extra cash. There is a variant of poker, when you get together with a bottle of beer in the evening with friends and you play cards. I don't think people like that play for big money. It's just a token amount of money. Or another option is people who play slot machines somewhere in underground places. That's where the risks are very high. And separately, if we take the whole online gambling casino industry. They a priori established and married players do not play, there is no sums of 50,000 or half a million. Everything is relative up to 10,000.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

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@weinholdpietro

I would say that you probably haven't been in contact with many, if any compulsive gamblers in your life. 

A majority of people gamble for fun or within their means whichever way you describe it, but sadly a lot don't and it leads to tragedy.

 

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24 minutes ago, weinholdpietro said:

 

I honestly don't know any people who would take things out of their house or sell them to play. The whole world of gambling has a very fine line. There are so many different kinds of games. Somebody plays in the casino in Las Vegas smoking a cigar, and surely if this person loses some amount, he's not going to kill and go sell, because people who play in casinos in Las Vegas have a lot of extra cash. There is a variant of poker, when you get together with a bottle of beer in the evening with friends and you play cards. I don't think people like that play for big money. It's just a token amount of money. Or another option is people who play slot machines somewhere in underground places. That's where the risks are very high. And separately, if we take the whole online gambling casino industry. They a priori established and married players do not play, there is no sums of 50,000 or half a million. Everything is relative up to 10,000.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Yes you are saying you do not have a clue about what an addict will do to get a fix.

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42 minutes ago, weinholdpietro said:

 

I honestly don't know any people who would take things out of their house or sell them to play. The whole world of gambling has a very fine line. There are so many different kinds of games. Somebody plays in the casino in Las Vegas smoking a cigar, and surely if this person loses some amount, he's not going to kill and go sell, because people who play in casinos in Las Vegas have a lot of extra cash. There is a variant of poker, when you get together with a bottle of beer in the evening with friends and you play cards. I don't think people like that play for big money. It's just a token amount of money. Or another option is people who play slot machines somewhere in underground places. That's where the risks are very high. And separately, if we take the whole online gambling casino industry. They a priori established and married players do not play, there is no sums of 50,000 or half a million. Everything is relative up to 10,000.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Welcome to the site 

Sadly just like other addictions be that smoking or alcohol drugs or even sex with some people,  the one size cure doesn't fit everyone. 

I know my own issues and have always been open about them, but I see people that are way WAAAAY on another planet from my affairs. 

Surely a person taking their own life because of gambling must prove just how powerful that hold over them had become. 

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On 23/07/2022 at 12:18, Bangers said:

The people that surround a problem gambler or drug user or alcoholic will only really provide support for a limited time,   a kind of 2 or 3 strikes and you are out scenario 

If your messing up over and over and over again that drifts into years,  the surrounding people just get tired of the stories. 

How many hardened gamblers have really good support around them ?  

I suspect the real answer is quite a few.....if they were to prepared to open up, be honest and embrace that support.

But there is a lot of shame and stigma around gambling addiction (all addictions to a certain degree) so it bubbles away below the surface.

But let's assume someone does have nobody for support - who can step up to protect those people from themselves? In my opinion this is where the UKGC step in and try to remove the harm from certain types of gambling and manage problem gambling behavior. Of course, they don't get it all right all the time but their intentions are right. The part which puzzles me is that on this forum the general consensus appears to be that  the UKGC are 'killing online gambling' which seems to entirely misconstrue their actions in my opinion.

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30 minutes ago, PieGamble said:

But let's assume someone does have nobody for support - who can step up to protect those people from themselves

It's down to if the person wants the support really. There is plenty of support out there for people and it's anonymous. 

It's a huge step to open up to family or friends for support due to the shame and their change in perception of you.

As far as addictions go I think gambling is by far the worst because I've said before so many times that non gamblers simply don't understand and never will.

 

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1 hour ago, david1111 said:

I've said before so many times that non gamblers simply don't understand and never will.

Spot on fella 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PieGamble said:

The part which puzzles me is that on this forum the general consensus appears to be that  the UKGC are 'killing online gambling' which seems to entirely misconstrue their actions in my opinion.

Double edge sword isn't it 

I've read plenty about people on this site that will make out they are not in the ''problem gambler bracket'' Id disagree. 

The first positive honest step anyone with a habit / addiction can ever make is understand how things are in your OWN HEAD before moving forward with anything else.  

The sheer volume of people that have came on here saying they are on Gamstop but still managed to register with some casino I feel is disturbing and not good reading for me, that level for me anyway is concerning,  you can tell how mixed up those people are,  they want to gamble they don't want to gamble, they want their stake back cos they lost, they want the winnings cos they won, they want the winnings and the stake back cos the casino allowed them to gamble.

Those people need to stand in front of a mirror and see the person looking back,  because of the person in the mirror has allowed things to get a bit out of hand, they are on a new upper floor level and it needs addressing, things have went a bit turbo, but only them can decide and own up they really do have a problem. 

Sometimes gamstop just isn't enough, those people that bypassed gamstop and register on here are proving that over and over, some people got their advice and possibly didn't like it and left, many more are still to join and they will ask or put forward the same situation.  Sooo I'm on gamstop but I registered with my girlfriends card and uploaded £400 and then won £1600 but the casino are not paying, how can they do that ?  I want my deposit back etc etc etc . 

And that's just the people that found this site and told us about things,  how many didn't find us or similar sites to post about their situation,  the numbers must be wild, as a few of us have been pointing out for months / years, gambling now is very big business, it's rammed down our throats around most corners, TV or Radio adds but it's all shown as being full of glamour and people want a taste of that, the bad side isn't being shown enough, but the bad side is now thriving. 

Edited by Bangers
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Bangers said:

they want to gamble they don't want to gamble,

That sums it up. 

It's like the animal House scene ( I think) where you have a devil at one side of your head egging you on to do it and on the other side an angel telling you not to do it.

Nobody can stop a person gambling if they want to. Its ultimately up to them to try and suppress the urge somehow

Edited by david1111

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@Bangers I suppose it is a bit of a double edged sword. At one extreme you could be preventing financial ruin with potentially fatal outcomes where as the other is people lose their freedom to gamble however they choose. Obviously one of those is much detrimental than the other but being a libertarian at heart so the notion of personal choice / lack freedom being removed makes it a difficult one for me to really come to any definitive view.

I do, however, frame the question slightly differently in my own head. Should a person have the 'right' to lose everything to gambling? Probably. Should a casino have the right to take everything from someone who willingly submits to the process? Probably not hence why I think the onus shifts to containing the actions of the casino. Some people might point out that the casino is taking the risk but when it comes to fixed odds betting they aren't really - they'll all win eventually.

I do think the actions and intent of the UKGC are often maligned in a way unfair. I think there are some things in life where people need to protected from themselves and gambling is probably one of those things and I think there can be a middle ground or certainly ways of making it less harmful .

I also recognise your point that people are often in either in denial or simply unaware of their own gambling issues. Everyone has to go through their own journey.

I suspect that in years to come some forms of gambling will be clinically proven to demonstrate our ape like brains are 'hijacked' in ways for which we simply have no defence similar to how optical illusions and such like work. I still struggle to understand my own mind and why slots do what they do to me. And if that theory is correct then it reinforces my view that people do sometimes need to be protected from themselves.

I'm rambling now so to summarize - deaths from gambling are a preventable tragedy - we can and should do more to protect those at danger of themselves even at the expense of the freedoms of others.

Peace out.

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5 minutes ago, PieGamble said:

@Bangers I suppose it is a bit of a double edged sword. At one extreme you could be preventing financial ruin with potentially fatal outcomes where as the other is people lose their freedom to gamble however they choose. Obviously one of those is much detrimental than the other but being a libertarian at heart so the notion of personal choice / lack freedom being removed makes it a difficult one for me to really come to any definitive view.

I do, however, frame the question slightly differently in my own head. Should a person have the 'right' to lose everything to gambling? Probably. Should a casino have the right to take everything from someone who willingly submits to the process? Probably not hence why I think the onus shifts to containing the actions of the casino. Some people might point out that the casino is taking the risk but when it comes to fixed odds betting they aren't really - they'll all win eventually.

I do think the actions and intent of the UKGC are often maligned in a way unfair. I think there are some things in life where people need to protected from themselves and gambling is probably one of those things and I think there can be a middle ground or certainly ways of making it less harmful .

I also recognise your point that people are often in either in denial or simply unaware of their own gambling issues. Everyone has to go through their own journey.

I suspect that in years to come some forms of gambling will be clinically proven to demonstrate our ape like brains are 'hijacked' in ways for which we simply have no defence similar to how optical illusions and such like work. I still struggle to understand my own mind and why slots do what they do to me. And if that theory is correct then it reinforces my view that people do sometimes need to be protected from themselves.

I'm rambling now so to summarize - deaths from gambling are a preventable tragedy - we can and should do more to protect those at danger of themselves even at the expense of the freedoms of others.

Peace out.

Another QTY post man 

As someone once said to me years ago,    you can only build a wall so high. 

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On 22.07.2022 at 13:08, Bangers said:

Возможно 

 

The bright lights of the city are mesmerizing. A world where the ups and downs bring dopamine. The ups and downs it brings are a welcome distraction for many for a variety of reasons.

The falls make you feel disgusted with yourself, it's like a form of self-harm. Heights make you feel incredible.

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