The Ukraine situation

[philinvicta]

There is no way that Ukraine will be welcomed in to NATO  or the EU  as they still do not have the levels of government  etc that are required like I said earlier in the thread .

I know Russia is more prepared for sanctions than the NATO nations expected but I am sure that the longer it goes on the more it will be effected.  It will cost western nations ( well us poor peasants)  a lot more to buy our food and heat etc   but it look 's like a price our governments are prepared to let us pay.

Also the NATO nations have no idea who will take over if Putin does go.  We had a lot of softer Russian leaders since Gorbachev with regards to attitudes to the West  but it looks like more hard liners are now getting into power there. This may be wy the Western Nations are trying to weaken Russia by dragging out the war so they have to use up resources.

No one has the patience that China has as a nation and they will not care if it takes a few centuries for then to reap the full benefits  of the conflict.

 

[Guest Fudge]

@Mad Slasher McGurk

So lets assume russia successfully occupies Ukraine. How likely is that he will stop at that and won't try to restore the ussr? What if he tries to invade Baltic countries that are in the NATO?

[philinvicta]

7 minutes ago, david1111 said:

Perhaps and of course obligation is felt on humanitarian grounds, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

If we cross that line who knows what position we could end up in

Here in Ireland we have so many refugees that it has been announced that there is no more  facilities for them and  for the foreseeable future any adult refugees without children  arriving will not get accomadation.  It is expected that the numbers sleeping rough on Dublin's streets could increase by four or five times

[david1111]

1 minute ago, philinvicta said:

Here in Ireland we have so many refugees that it has been announced that there is no more  facilities for them and  for the foreseeable future any adult refugees without children  arriving will not get accomadation.  It is expected that the numbers sleeping rough on Dublin's streets could increase by four or five times

It's really shocking and I would struggle to turn anyone away who was desperate as they are.

I really don't know how it's going to resolve itself Phil

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

7 minutes ago, Fudge said:

@Mad Slasher McGurk

So lets assume russia successfully occupies Ukraine. How likely is that he will stop at that and won't try to restore the ussr? What if he tries to invade Baltic countries that are in the NATO?

Attacking a NATO country gives full and justifiable, legal and lawful reasons to instigate Article 5.  

[philinvicta]

I also believe that the original support Ukraine received from the USA etc helped Ukraine retake land from the Russian invaders and to stop them advancing.  I know Russian forces look like that they will  take Bakhmut but if they have to fight as hard for the rest of the 4 donbass they are trying to take over it will mean a hell of a lot more dead  (both Ukrainian and Russian).

If the Ukrainians get lots of new equipment it could mean even more fierce fighting as  the Russians get squeezed into smaller zones.

I know there is a lot of talk of Russian air supremacy but the Ukrainians have been provided with some good  ground to air  defences and I think even the other day 3 planes were shot down 

[philinvicta]

1 minute ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Attacking a NATO country gives full and justifiable, legal and lawful reasons to instigate Article 5.  

I do not think either side wants to see that sort of escalation and are going out of their way to avoid it. Look at the panic there was when that missile landed in Poland.

 

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

Just now, philinvicta said:

I do not think either side wants to see that sort of escalation and are going out of their way to avoid it. Look at the panic there was when that missile landed in Poland.

 

I think we are already at war with Russia, if WW3 does come about it will be interesting to see where exactly the history books will say it began.  

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

17 minutes ago, Fudge said:

@Mad Slasher McGurk

So lets assume russia successfully occupies Ukraine. How likely is that he will stop at that and won't try to restore the ussr? What if he tries to invade Baltic countries that are in the NATO?

Also either Russia is a weak incompetent military, with no munitions left who are being beaten by Ukraine or they are going to breeze through Europe if not stopped, which one is it because it can't be both?

[david1111]

13 minutes ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

Also either Russia is a weak incompetent military, with no munitions left who are being beaten by Ukraine or they are going to breeze through Europe if not stopped, which one is it because it can't be both?

The Russians would be too arrogant to accept defeat so once again my worry would be how far are they actually willing to go

[Gkell727]

Anyone else hope they nuke us. I know I’d perish but I honestly think mankind started going backwards years ago. I saw a kid on a lead today like a dog and I see kids scrapping over juice drinks in my local shop. 

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

1 minute ago, david1111 said:

The Russians would be too arrogant to accept defeat so once again my worry would be how far are they actually willing to go

I personally think they have been extremely tolerant of all the continual provocations, Putin gives his red lines, and then he warns, then he warns again, and again and again and again and only then does he do what he said he would do.  I also think contrary to Western narrative Putin is actually a moderate and if Putin does go you there is the possibility you might get someone far worse.

If Ukraine joined NATO and they then did their usual routine of basing nukes pointed at Russia that's only a 10 minute fllight time into Russia, when the West eventually catches up to the Hypersonic missile technology that then becomes a 2 minute flight time to Moscow.  I for one don't want any decision making on retaliation be it genuine or false alarm down to a window of 2 minutes.  The days of picking up the direct line phone and sorting out misunderstandings would be over.  Lets not forget it's the US not Russia that is promoting the first strike policy as a viable military option and it was the US that withdrew from the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty not Russia.

As far as reasons go for invading a country I've seen worse.

[RouletteMonkey]

Going on the way the worlds done wars, 300 years ago ever country was at war with each other, less and less over the years the odds this war is the last in inevitable …. 
 

The last world war 

[Blacko]

Boris the bellend has now come forward to encourage the UK to give Ukraine ALL our fighter jets to fight Russia. Looks like we are walking into deep water @philinvicta. This could escalate very quickly, looking for a flatmate @crazyrightmeow?.

[david1111]

43 minutes ago, Blacko said:

Boris the bellend has now come forward to encourage the UK to give Ukraine ALL our fighter jets to fight Russia. Looks like we are walking into deep water @philinvicta. This could escalate very quickly, looking for a flatmate @crazyrightmeow?.

I heard that on the way home. He's looking to be seen as some sort of hero.

Does he not realise how dangerous the situation is for everyone. 

It's also just been more or less confirmed that putin was responsible for supplying and authorising the missile that brought the passenger jet down in 2014.

[crazyrightmeow]

1 hour ago, Blacko said:

Boris the bellend has now come forward to encourage the UK to give Ukraine ALL our fighter jets to fight Russia. Looks like we are walking into deep water @philinvicta. This could escalate very quickly, looking for a flatmate @crazyrightmeow?.

Dont worry jets will stay in UK. It would just be a waste of money since nothing would change with them and everyone knows it.

[Blacko]

3 minutes ago, crazyrightmeow said:

Dont worry jets will stay in UK. It would just be a waste of money since nothing would change with them and everyone knows it.

What do you mean Bro?

[crazyrightmeow]

Just now, Blacko said:

What do you mean Bro?

Nothing would change in Ukraine with those jets even if they get them. So UK would just lose hundreds of millions of your money basically for no reason.

[VillaLad]

2 minutes ago, crazyrightmeow said:

Nothing would change in Ukraine with those jets even if they get them. So UK would just lose hundreds of millions of your money basically for no reason.

That happens weekly we’re used to it 

[Blacko]

5 minutes ago, crazyrightmeow said:

Nothing would change in Ukraine with those jets even if they get them. So UK would just lose hundreds of millions of your money basically for no reason.

Were fucking skint in the UK lad, giving away money we don't have to spend. Maybe just maybe any extra funds should be sent to assist the poor Turks who's families are buried under tons of concrete instead of Johnson going out his way to throw fuel on a fire.

[crazyrightmeow]

3 minutes ago, Blacko said:

Were fucking skint in the UK lad, giving away money we don't have to spend. Maybe just maybe any extra funds should be sent to assist the poor Turks who's families are buried under tons of concrete instead of Johnson going out his way to throw fuel on a fire.

Yea the same shit happens here mate. Muppets on the top always find a way to torch the money.

[Blacko]

24 minutes ago, crazyrightmeow said:

Yea the same shit happens here mate. Muppets on the top always find a way to torch the money.

Yeah the Slovenian authorities always find a way to torch those 4 torn fivers they have available in their treasury 

@MrUKHackz Can u make a torn fiver emoji hardman?

[RouletteMonkey]

There’s only man that creates war, very rare a woman …. Me being a man often thinks

 

 

 

[david1111]

16 minutes ago, RouletteMonkey said:

There’s only man that creates war, very rare a woman …. Me being a man often thinks

 

 

 

Pretty sure Liz Truss could have done

[Blacko]

26 minutes ago, RouletteMonkey said:

There’s only man that creates war, very rare a woman …. Me being a man often thinks

 

 

 

Women create war in just about every household in the UK.. particularly when you delete Emmerdale from Sky recordings to make room for Dickinsons real deal.