amygibbo17

Dreamvegas confiscated my winnings - 1750x on Jammin Jars

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I joined Dreamvegas (White Hat Gaming) and made my first deposit for 200 and was given a bonus for my deposit. I started playing and had a massive win on jammin jars (attached) for around 7200 , i finished the wagering and cleared the bonus funds to cash withdrawal funds. At this point Dream Vegas removed the winnings and said deposits made with Neteller are not eligible for Bonuses. Imagine my feeling to lose 7600 just because of Neteller. Its really stressing me out, I feel sad and angry going back and fourth with them on this. 

The fact they awarded me a bonus to play with is their fault. How is it fair to award the bonus when i have no chance to win! I was literally in a lose/lose situation. They should have a system in place to stop bonuses being awarded for certain deposit methods. They first quoted the terms to me as  "Deposits with Neteller are not eligible, and if taken winnings will be confiscated" however when i looked for myself it says at the bottom of the bonus page "Deposits with Neteller are not eligible" they only added the part about confiscating winnings into the email. There is no mention anywhere in the T&Cs that they would confiscate winnings for this, however they do have a list of things they would confiscate winnings for like betting more than the max bet etc (attached).

I have suffered due to a failing in their system that attributed me a bonus for which I was not eligible for. The argument is that it is misleading to credit a bonus which is invalid from the start. It causes a win/win, lose/lose situation in their favour. There shouldn't be a bonus attributed in the first place. Its their responsibility to give bonuses or not. 

I'm shocked that the first decision is to remove all the winnings. I can think of fairer options like just removing the bonus amount which was awarded in error, or even asking me to wager more. I would be happy to wager some more. To simply take my balance from €7800 back to €200 just like that is heartbreaking. The joy I had of winning was a huge welcome relief in these difficult Covid times but now this has made things worse. 

I'm a fan of twitch streamers, I've watched Paul a lot, going back to when he beat Patrick Antonius. If you see this @Rocknrolla I would be so grateful if theirs anything you can do. 

 

 

 

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Edited by amygibbo17

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Regretably the Casino (Dreamvegas) has made a mistake in issuing you with a bonus . However it would be difficult to prove that the T and Cs were changed  to suit the circumstances ,and therefore they are within their rights to forfeit the winnings if indeed you deposited with Netteller . It is a nefarious and deceitful act to award a bonus and then confiscate the winnings , but not illegal .

You have been robbed.  Obviously the T and Cs are the issue . So if you had read them clearly before depositing then you would not be so angry about the Loss.  There is little you can do.  Walk away -- lesson learned .  You do however have a good case for the return of the original 200 euros you deposited and should pursue it .

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Its not so much as T&Cs being changed, it still doesn't say they would confiscate winnings for such thing in the T&Cs. I'm sure Casino's and businesses in general are suppose to act in good faith, this is far from it. A lot of things don't add up here and i don't want to jump to any conclusions or make statements against Dream Vegas but I believe we can resolve this in better ways then me losing the biggest win I'm likely to ever get. 

:frowning_face:

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Unfortunately this story is far from new , and similar problems have occurred often and always result in the casino T and Cs being shown to be right , yet obviously  not in favour of the customer.  

The casino will never let anyone keep winnings if deemed unfairly won -- ie against deposit terms .  

I am not an expert , but some others here may have a more accurate point .....

perhaps our administrator  @MrUKHackz could offer some advice here ??

 

Edited by Solario333

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Unfortunately it's another get out for them.

It's ridiculous that they allow you to play with bonus funds when depositing via netteller. It would be so simple to put the technology to good use and put a simple message up saying as you deposited via netteller, bonus funds not available.

But no, they allow this to happen and then plunge the knife in when the player thinks they have won big.

There is no good faith

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Sorry to hear @amygibbo17 that is pretty rough. 

Sadly, I agree with the others above and think you’ll find this to be a dead end as their terms will hold up. Even without the “if taken, any winnings will be confiscated” being in the actual Ts&Cs it’s general practice that this is the result of any breach of Ts&Cs (that is to say, after each term they don’t have to write “and if breached winnings will be confiscated”) as it’s inherent nature is that this will be the outcome for any breach.

Solario is right about the return of your €200 deposit, but having read your email I see they already returned that so you can effectively start again with your initial deposit, or withdraw it if you don’t want to use them in light of this, but that’s the end of it I’m afraid. 

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What if i lost, there's no way they would email me and offer a refund, it would be forgotten about. Also with or without a bonus i was still going to play Jammin Jars so the only thing the bonus did was prolong my playing time as it took me 2 days to finish the wager. I know it was extra money to play with but I'm not even sure i went below my deposit before the big win. 

I'm getting support from family and friends and lots of advice. Can i ask here as you guys will have a better understanding... Would it be silly if i wrote a letter to my local politician? I know they're getting stricter on online casinos for this sort of stuff, I'm not sure if they can do anything to help? I can't let it go i will literally try every avenue possible because I know right from wrong and this isn't fair regardless. 

 

Edited by amygibbo17

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5 minutes ago, Tricky0212 said:

Sorry to hear @amygibbo17 that is pretty rough. 

Sadly, I agree with the others above and think you’ll find this to be a dead end as their terms will hold up. Even without the “if taken, any winnings will be confiscated” being in the actual Ts&Cs it’s general practice that this is the result of any breach of Ts&Cs (that is to say, after each term they don’t have to write “and if breached winnings will be confiscated”) as it’s inherent nature is that this will be the outcome for any breach.

Solario is right about the return of your €200 deposit, but having read your email I see they already returned that so you can effectively start again with your initial deposit, or withdraw it if you don’t want to use them in light of this, but that’s the end of it I’m afraid. 

Hi, I can see they state confiscating winnings for the max bet rule and other stuff but why not this? Its pretty important. Also I've attached comparisons from DreamVegas and 21Casino to show the difference. 

If only they just say "We notice the bonus was given by mistake in that circumstance you can keep your winnings" or even add "But we will take back the bonus we gave you". Why has it got to be this nightmare scenario. I know Casino's don't like players winning but this is taking the biscuit imo.

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@amygibbo17 you will drive yourself mad trying to force a casino to pay you .  The simple truth is that you have been duped, and there is nothing you can do except take the hit.  

Politicians are the last people in the world who will give a happy solution , because as long as the Gambler is gambling the exchequer is counting the tax income and cares little for the reality of deceit that exists . We here on TGC have seen many of these spurious terms and conditions create havoc as unsuspecting gamblers fall foul of the entrapment and find no legal redress. 

Its a sad fact , but Gamblers are duped every moment of the day . 

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27 minutes ago, amygibbo17 said:

What if i lost, there's no way they would email me and offer a refund, it would be forgotten about. Also with or without a bonus i was still going to play Jammin Jars so the only thing the bonus did was prolong my playing time as it took me 2 days to finish the wager. I know it was extra money to play with but I'm not even sure i went below my deposit before the big win. 

I'm getting support from family and friends and lots of advice. Can i ask here as you guys will have a better understanding... Would it be silly if i wrote a letter to my local politician? I know they're getting stricter on online casinos for this sort of stuff, I'm not sure if they can do anything to help? I can't let it go i will literally try every avenue possible because I know right from wrong and this isn't fair regardless. 

 

I would check that carefully as generally bonus funds terms only come into play if you actually use the bonus funds.

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How come's people here let Casino's act this way without challenging them legally in court? DreamVegas are based in Malta and have a UK Address so it could be challenged legally and then its the judges decision. It would cost a bit but might be able to get a solicitor on board on a no win no fee basis if they feel confident. I've researched some cases involving Bet365, Betfred, Betfair who when taken to court the player won so it is possible. I'm not saying that's the best way but I cant imagine just giving up on a win like this, at the end of the day a Casino is a business and has a duty to act responsibly, they shouldn't be able to do what they want without any repercussions. The way i was put into a lose/lose situation is seriously unethical and it was them who broke their own terms for awarding a bonus when Neteller was not eligible. 

 

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To be honest I find most of these bonuses as a SCAM. Its more comfortable for me to play with what Ive just charged and be able to cashout/do whatever I want with my money immidiately. With taking any bonus you "accept" tons of bullshit restrictions of casino, so in the end they dont want allow you to cashout your money. 

I had the same, but Ive charged 100€, took another 100€ bonus and then I won about 1500€. Casino told me I need to make cashflow at least 4000€ and there was no option to cancel bonus. So in the end, to make that cashflow I ended nearly to the zero. I think it was in Woo Casino. So my experience is that its better for me to play just for my money and have freedom, then "sign" some shitty policies by taking their bonuses. Its still casino math...

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Always read terms of bonuses before you deposit even the small text, a lot of people did a mistake not reading the bonus terms at some point but we are people and we learn from our mistakes and some are more painful than others but what can you do really? Its shitty that they award a bonus anyways when depositing with skrill\neteller but its hard disputing casinos so good luck with that mate, I hope you can get something out of this anways.

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15 minutes ago, PAMP4LINI said:

To be honest I find most of these bonuses as a SCAM. Its more comfortable for me to play with what Ive just charged and be able to cashout/do whatever I want with my money immidiately. With taking any bonus you "accept" tons of bullshit restrictions of casino, so in the end they dont want allow you to cashout your money. 

I had the same, but Ive charged 100€, took another 100€ bonus and then I won about 1500€. Casino told me I need to make cashflow at least 4000€ and there was no option to cancel bonus. So in the end, to make that cashflow I ended nearly to the zero. I think it was in Woo Casino. So my experience is that its better for me to play just for my money and have freedom, then "sign" some shitty policies by taking their bonuses. Its still casino math...

Its normal to wager(cashflow as you said it) bonus and It almost always like that when you take the bonus to play with.

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57 minutes ago, amygibbo17 said:

How come's people here let Casino's act this way without challenging them legally in court? DreamVegas are based in Malta and have a UK Address so it could be challenged legally and then its the judges decision. It would cost a bit but might be able to get a solicitor on board on a no win no fee basis if they feel confident. I've researched some cases involving Bet365, Betfred, Betfair who when taken to court the player won so it is possible. I'm not saying that's the best way but I cant imagine just giving up on a win like this, at the end of the day a Casino is a business and has a duty to act responsibly, they shouldn't be able to do what they want without any repercussions. The way i was put into a lose/lose situation is seriously unethical and it was them who broke their own terms for awarding a bonus when Neteller was not eligible. 

 

Agree entirely however the law does not care to enforce the rights of the gambler as CAVEAT EMPTOR applies ---- the legal loophole that lets the casinos do what they like . 

We have been saying what you say- for years- but to no avail . Malta is the Wild West and there is no redress. There is no rule of law in the Malta Gambling Commission , and the UKGC will certainly side with the casino in this case. 

Its your choice to disagree , but this is an open forum and I do not happily accept your "PUKE" emoji to the last message I posted . 

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Solario it wasn't an emoji against your comment! It was reaction to your comment "Gamblers are duped everyday" and some other stuff you said and its sickening to witness it happening to me. That's how i meant it. 

I have been told about cases in court where the player wins and the Judge is angry at the Casino. If the commissions are not helpful like you say I would most definitely challenge this legally. In the meantime i will stay positive and hope to resolve this between us, I'm just looking for someone who has contacts at the Casino for a better way of communicating. I want the Management to take a closer look at this.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment. 

Edited by amygibbo17

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I'm really feeling it for this lad, Cmon how many punters read all the T&Cs before getting stuck in?, the guy made his deposit and a bonus was added. This situation looks bad for dreamvegas, the bonus should never have been added!, I can see reasoning reading through smallprint when buying a house but not depositing with this shower of shite.

This whole industry is getting murkier by the day.

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@MrUKHackz How difficult would it be for a programmer to automatically block a bonus being added using the netteller payment method?

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52 minutes ago, amygibbo17 said:

Solario it wasn't an emoji against your comment! It was reaction to your comment "Gamblers are duped everyday" and some other stuff you said and its sickening to witness it happening to me. That's how i meant it. 

I have been told about cases in court where the player wins and the Judge is angry at the Casino. If the commissions are not helpful like you say I would most definitely challenge this legally. In the meantime i will stay positive and hope to resolve this between us, I'm just looking for someone who has contacts at the Casino for a better way of communicating. I want the Management to take a closer look at this.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment. 

I am a lawyer, and whilst I don’t specialise in gambling disputes it purely comes down to its commercial viability. 
 

cases that make it all the way to court are for huge sums of money and are NEVER on a no win no fee basis. Lawyers only offer those type of cases in situations where the probability of winning is very high and the amount involved is also great. Otherwise they do loads of work and don’t get paid. To fund something like this privately you would do well to get it to court for under £10k in legal costs alone. Now on the plus side,  if you win they would likely have to pay your costs, but similarly if you lose you would most likely have to pay theirs. 
 

I really do understand it’s hard to let go, and I really do empathise with you, but this is a losing battle. Their terms will hold up under these circumstances not only through the commission but also through the courts in my opinion as whilst it’s may seem unfair from a legal standpoint it’s pretty clear cut. 
 

Your local politician won’t become involved, purely because of the time and effort required to look into this - they would be heavily scrutinised as to whether this use of their time and resource is in the public interest (which no offence, it most certainly isn’t). 
 

I know it’s really hard to accept but just try to move on from it and if you do choose to play again in future read all of the terms and if anything isn’t clear to you, ask for clarification in live chat. For example had you done so here and explained you departed with Neteller but we’re awarded a bonus, what will happen - they would have explained and removed the bonus or told you any winnings would be void. 
 

As for it being a lose/lose situation, I don’t agree. You would always have got your €200 back (which they put back in your account) even if you had lost I’d be sure they would have refunded this so in theory you could never “lose”. 
 

I agree it’s poor programming and you would have thought that they had better systems in place to detect such deposits and add the bonus only where applicable but clearly they have an issue with doing this or they wouldn’t have had to write a specific term about it. 
 

I wish you all the best, but for your own sanity I do hope you can let it go, but whatever you do please don’t anticipate getting any of this money. 

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Hi thanks for the reply. I think you're right about my local politician so i will write to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Charlie Flanagan instead who should be better positioned to look into is. 

I've been told over the past few days about similar court cases, one person took moneygaming to court in the UK and was awarded £8000 for a supposed "Breach of the Terms" I don't know exactly what happened, there was a Non disclosure agreement but he said the total costs were £2200. £2200 to get £8000 isn't bad at all and your right the casino does have to pay your costs too. 

I don't think its as clear cut as you say, If anyone broke the terms it was them. Neteller is not eligible, why did they give me it?

No way would they of refunded me had i lost the €200. I'm sitting here now thinking how many people have deposited with Neteller or Skrill been given the bonus and lost and never got refunded? I imagine its a lot or people, Neteller and Skrill are used worldwide. 

 

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For a bit more clarity on this, the OP has posted on a few sites with this already, some with a lot more information, including that she was aware of the netteller/skrill restriction on other sites and this wasn't an "out of the blue" removal of funds as the post makes out, as the situation has been encountered before. Of course, that doesn't excuse dream vegas for allowing a bonus to be applied using netteller. Their website should be coded to remove that element. It's not hard and would take a decent programmer no time at all to implement. Their bonus banner also does clearly state the restriction. Is that enough to get your arguement through a court? Probably not. Not much else to add here though, if you want to explore avenues of appeal through ministers or courts i wish you all the best.

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Excuse me howfin? you just said  "the OP has posted on a few sites with this already, some with a lot more information, including that she was aware of the netteller/skrill restriction on other sites and this wasn't an "out of the blue" removal of funds as the post makes out, as the situation has been encountered before." Can you take a screenshot and post it here to prove what your saying please. 

I've only ever said I once deposited to casino.com, asked live chat for a bonus they said No because i was using Neteller. How is that anywhere near the same encounter as this? Casino.com did not credit a bonus. I've never had "removal of funds" before this so yes it was out of the blue, I'm so confused why you would say this and make out like its happened to me before. 

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3 minutes ago, amygibbo17 said:

Hi thanks for the reply. I think you're right about my local politician so i will write to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Charlie Flanagan instead who should be better positioned to look into is. 

I've been told over the past few days about similar court cases, one person took moneygaming to court in the UK and was awarded £8000 for a supposed "Breach of the Terms" I don't know exactly what happened, there was a Non disclosure agreement but he said the total costs were £2200. £2200 to get £8000 isn't bad at all and your right the casino does have to pay your costs too. 

I don't think its as clear cut as you say, If anyone broke the terms it was them. Neteller is not eligible, why did they give me it?

No way would they of refunded me had i lost the €200. I'm sitting here now thinking how many people have deposited with Neteller or Skrill been given the bonus and lost and never got refunded? I imagine its a lot or people, Neteller and Skrill are used worldwide. 

 

Hi mate im really sickened for you and like youself i would be exploring every avenue possible for my winnings to be returned .

There is one point that is unclear for me after reading the t&cs where it does clearly state " deposits made thru skrill or netseller are not elligible for welcome bonus's and all winnings will be confiscated".

Did you then upon deposit when given the option of "accept" or no "thanks" then accept the welcome bonus .

Or did the casino automatically add it .

 

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1 minute ago, Peter clark said:

Hi mate im really sickened for you and like youself i would be exploring every avenue possible for my winnings to be returned .

There is one point that is unclear for me after reading the t&cs where it does clearly state " deposits made thru skrill or netseller are not elligible for welcome bonus's and all winnings will be confiscated".

Did you then upon deposit when given the option of "accept" or no "thanks" then accept the welcome bonus .

Or did the casino automatically add it .

 

Hi Peter, thanks for the comment. The T&Cs don't say that the winnings will be confiscated it just says that "Deposits made with Neteller and Skrill are not eligible". 

 

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12 minutes ago, amygibbo17 said:

Excuse me howfin? you just said  "the OP has posted on a few sites with this already, some with a lot more information, including that she was aware of the netteller/skrill restriction on other sites and this wasn't an "out of the blue" removal of funds as the post makes out, as the situation has been encountered before." Can you take a screenshot and post it here to prove what your saying please. 

I've only ever said I once deposited to casino.com, asked live chat for a bonus they said No because i was using Neteller. How is that anywhere near the same encounter as this? Casino.com did not credit a bonus. I've never had "removal of funds" before this so yes it was out of the blue, I'm so confused why you would say this and make out like its happened to me before. 

If you were aware of the restriction with neteller on other sites it's reasonable to assume you would have been aware of it with dream vagas as well. It is clearly marked in their welcome banner as well. I mean, who the fuck uses neteller these days. Anyway, it's besides the point at this stage. We all understand it's a shit lot of money to lose on a technicality however there's a slim to none chance of ever seeing it again, unless you follow through with your legal action which problably will run into the thousands and still return a 0 as it's a breach of t&c, regardless of foreknowledge or website error.

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