Self excluded with GAMSTOP but could still deposit

[themist]

Hello,

Just wanted some advice.

 

A couple of months ago I was self excluded by GAMSTOP. When I relapsed through my mistake on my own, I registered with an account on Hollywoodbets and deposited a large sum of money (I think close to £1000). I asked for my deposit back and spoke to Hollywoodbets who said a few details conflicted with those on GAMSTOP. For the purposes of this thread I'm going to anonymise the data.This is what their email stated in March

'We have reviewed your proof of Gamstop and taking serious consideration of the facts, we respectfully advise that your request for a refund of your deposits has been declined.

Please be aware that the following details registered on Gamstop is different from the details you ussed to register with Hollywoodbets : 
 

1. Name is XY with us and gamstop is X 
2. Address has a . on back office
3. Email used with us X gamstop must be Y

This is the reason the current self-exclusion was not picked up by the system and your account was not blocked on registration.'

For your information my full legal first name is XY. 

After reading some posts on here I'm not sure whether to reopen this case again as I realise that at least 2  of their reasons are false. The second one is utterly bizarre. I don't consider an email address to be a marker of identity. This all happened back in March.

 

My question is - do I have grounds to reopen this case and pursue my deposits back?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[howfin]

Always going to be a difficult one as if you won you wouldnt have been handing back your winnings to the casino.

I know nothing about this but id imagine the casino would be on the same sort of wavelength so theyd be reluctant to do anything. Probably the best thing to do would be to speak to gamstop and see what they say.

Not sure on the legality of it personally maybe @MrUKHackz might know more as hes a gamstop bellend 

[MrUKHackz]

@themist Hi and welcome,

Regarding your question, I would be straight on to Gamstop to confirm the ifs and buts, you can contact them on the phone and they will have a proper chat with you and look directly into it, failing that I'd ask the casino one last time and let them know I would be pursuing a case with IBAS if they don't wish to refund you voluntarily.

Remember in future to take responsibility for your own actions though as you can imagine how many people try this move with the casinos to get a "free roll", like @howfin said if you'd won you wouldn't be telling them there mistake would you!!

Anyway keep us posted, cheers

 

P.S. @howfin theres more chance of you going bucky free for life than me going on Gamstop!!

[howfin]

3 minutes ago, MrUKHackz said:

P.S. @howfin theres more chance of you going bucky free for life than me going on Gamstop!!

Haha I wasnt implying you were on gamstop just that you have read the user manual and know how it works 

[Guest Chair Slots]

It doesn't even have a UKGC license.

Is this a genuine query? I really hope it's not a backwards dirty advertisement for Hollywoodbets.

[MrUKHackz]

1 minute ago, Chair Slots said:

It doesn't even have a UKGC license.

Is this a genuine query? I really hope it's not a backwards dirty advertisement for Hollywoodbets.

Yeah it does, I hope he's on about this one

https://www.hollywoodbets.co.uk/

 

[howfin]

1 minute ago, Chair Slots said:

It doesn't even have a UKGC license.

Is this a genuine query? I really hope it's not a backwards dirty advertisement for Hollywoodbets.

It does from what i saw?

[Guest Chair Slots]

Fair enough. Top Google search was  REMOVED BY HACKZ

Still suspicious it might be an ad for the place though. No publicity is bad publicity and all that. Planting the idea to possible Gamstop circumventors that they might be able to play somewhere if the urge gets too strong.

[Jok3st3r]

They are on the gamstop register (providing these are who the OP used)

https://www.gamstop.co.uk/participating-companies

 

[RB91]

Harsh life lesson for you. 

[RB91]

17 minutes ago, Gkell727 said:

Refunding would set a pretty dangerous precedent, I’m no lover of the way casinos treat players at time’s especially SOW etc but in this case I think you need to bite the bullet. Don’t gamble when your on gamstop and all will be ok. 

I’m sure I read have to refund deposits if someone is on GamStop... because their systems have let them down. But if someone uses different details then they’ve only got themselves to blame. 

[themist]

Thanks for al your input guys This incident happened 2 months ago so I’m not too concerned if I lose, but reading some posts on here made me question whether I should reopen the case, and I have gone to ibas about it. Whilst I acknowledge some fault of mine I agree that the reasons they gave are bizarre. Like I said I agree about the email but I don’t about the other 2. 

 

if a person was called Micheal but they used mike when registering an account does that mean that they can create a new account? Likewise that is how they have stated that the name I used was different.

 

[howfin]

If thats how it works then it's really a poor service but from everything i heard so far it really does work. There should have been a number of other factors to catch you in their nets when signing up so it implies all or the majority of the stuff you entered was different. Hard to say from an armchair though when you cant compare the differences first hand 

[themist]

I've gone to IBAS and the UKGC about it anyway, I don't believe all of their reasons should stand. 

 

I also do not mind sending the actual email to anyone if they'd like to see the differences in info. I just don't wish to post my information on this thread.

[themist]

This is the response IBAS have just given me...

 

Dear Mr Mistry

 

Thank you for your submissions yesterday. I was sorry to learn of your issue with both operators and the losses you have had.

 

As you have been told, it is essential for you to keep your Gamstop registration up to do with your latest personal information.

 

We would like to help further, but unfortunately IBAS has no remit to investigate responsible gambling/self exclusion or customer service issues. 

Hollywoodbets is licensed and regulated by the UK Gambling Commission. You should make a complaint to them if you believe that they have contravened the terms of their licence. The best way to do that is by e-mail to info@gamblingcommission.gov.uk

PLEASE NOTE: The Gambling Commission does not conduct an investigation in the same way as IBAS (i.e. with a published final decision) nor does it ever make financial awards to customers. However, on some occasions the outcome of a regulatory investigation may either persuade an operator to make a payment to the complainant or provide grounds for the complainant to take the matter to court.

You are clearly doing your best to address your gambling problem. I should say that The Gordon Moody Association offers a Gambling Therapy app that I know a lot of people have found helpful and relevant in trying to overcome a gambling addictionhttps://www.gamblingtherapy.org/en

In the circumstances, I would advise you to also consider the  software you can install to prevent you accessing gambling sites – for a start take a look athttps://www.gamcare.org.uk/self-help/blocking-software/

 

It is also worth approaching your bank and seeing if they have a policy (some do) that allows you to sign up and prevent them making payments on your behalf to gambling sites. If your bank doesn’t,  perhaps have a look round to find one that does. Seehttps://www.gamcare.org.uk/self-help/finance-and-debt-management/   Given what has happened, this would seem particularly helpful for you.

                                         

With regard to your point about financial compensation, the harsh reality is that while there are clear regulatory conditions for the steps that gambling companies must take to interact with and engage with customers to prevent problem gambling, there is no parallel condition or code of conduct that says losses sustained should normally be refunded to customers. Nor is there any legal precedent that we are aware of.

We do not underestimate, for a second, the emotional and financial distress that this will have put you under, but the regulatory position is that gambling operators should do all that they can to prevent customers from gambling excessively and the Gambling Commission frequently issues fines to operators who are found to have fallen short of those expectations.

It may be that the law is ready for a change, which is one of the reasons why we refer complaints similar to yours to the Gambling Commission – so that they are aware of the number and type of problems that are causing complaints and so they can factor this into their future policy making.

Realistically – as the law stands – we would be inclined to say that you would be best to prepare for not receiving a return of the money that was lost and aim to look forward, rather than backwards. 

 

If the Gambling Commission does conclude that either operator breached their licence conditions in your specific case, then please do contact us again and we will see whether anything further can be done to help you. 

 

I appreciate that this is probably not what you want to hear. I also hope that, in due course, that you will somehow be able to put all this behind you. That is not going to be easy, everyone here does wish you all the best for the future.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by themist

[themist]

Now I do realise that IBAS do not deal with self exclusion complaints nor do they have a reputable success rate according to trustpilot, but I still do not believe that the reasons HB states are legitimate.

 

what does everyone make of this?

[HenryThelegend]

I always thought email/phone were largely irrelevant and if it matches name/dob and address then you get flagged by Gamstop.

And I think the name is checked by initial and surname, so Michael and Mike should be the same.

I think if any of the name/dob/address is different then gamstop won't flag you up. So if you move house then I don't think Gamstop flags you up, especially if you have different phone and email which are probably secondary checks on the system.

So if you had correct initial, surname, address, dob..then they should have flagged you up and not let you deposit.

I hate it when people say "Personal responsibility" because even though this is true its not relevant. The casinos make shitloads of money off gamblers. Paying back a few problem gamblers who got round their self-exclusion system should be a necessary part of doing business. If they don't like doing this then they are in the wrong business. As when your entire business creates a ton of collateral damage (via problem gamblers) then you are going to have to eat a few costs relating to that collateral damage you are doing to society. Their license granted by the UK government gives them perks and responsibilities. Their perks are to make money off one of the most lucrative gambling markets in the world, and their responsibilities is to stop people registered on Gamstop from gambling with them. The casinos need to live up to their responsibilities, and when they fuck up they should reimburse the people involved or should not pay out the people involved as they should not be taking their bets.

How about the casinos show some responsibility and stop with their shitty self exclusion systems.

Edited May 19, 2020 by HenryThelegend

[Guest centipede]

I hate questions like this.

On the one hand, I cant stand casinos/bookies abusing these situations and being in no lose positions where if the player won they wouldnt have paid out anyway. In this case because the casino didnt flag out the gamstop they are saying they would have paid out any winnings. Debatable enough in itself 

But on the other hand, I equally hate it when someone spunks their money and wants a refund.

Its like having the deciding vote about whether chipmonkz or roshtein wins gambling streamer of the year

Edited May 19, 2020 by centipede

[howfin]

The problem is, there are numerous people on here and elsewhere who are signed up to gamstop and say it works brilliantly. Their systems can only catch so much but I too imagined it was based mainly on name and dob and such things. That tends to lean towards this guy inputting details that are way different from his gamstop registered details and thus it was missed by the initial signup protection.

He may say one thing but we will never know the full truth as unless youre the person looking at his details on gamstop vs the ones he signed up with at the casino it'll be impossible to assess properly. Not calling him a liar but you can never take anything on face value, especially in this sector. Ultimately though if his story is true he should try to take it further and IBAS have given him an email to enquire further which he should make use of.

[4houghts]

7 minutes ago, centipede said:

On the one hand, I cant stand casinos/bookies abusing these situations and being in no lose positions where if the player won they wouldnt have paid out anyway. In this case because the casino didnt flag out the gamstop they are saying they would have paid out any winnings. Debatable enough in itself 

win win 

[4houghts]

4 minutes ago, howfin said:

The problem is, there are numerous people on here and elsewhere who are signed up to gamstop and say it works brilliantly. Their systems can only catch so much but I too imagined it was based mainly on name and dob and such things. That tends to lean towards this guy inputting details that are way different from his gamstop registered details and thus it was missed by the initial signup protection.

He may say one thing but we will never know the full truth as unless youre the person looking at his details on gamstop vs the ones he signed up with at the casino it'll be impossible to assess properly. Not calling him a liar but you can never take anything on face value, especially in this sector. Ultimately though if his story is true he should try to take it further and IBAS have given him an email to enquire further which he should make use of.

Im pretty sure just by changing a few things which I dont want to encourage you can get through it very easily, you can even sign someone else up for gamstop for 5 years as no ID is required, (maybe that has changed). There was some guy on twitter whos friend trolled him by signing him up with his email and everything and there is nothing he could do. 

[howfin]

3 minutes ago, 4houghts said:

Im pretty sure just by changing a few things which I dont want to encourage you can get through it very easily, you can even sign someone else up for gamstop for 5 years as no ID is required, (maybe that has changed). There was some guy on twitter whos friend trolled him by signing him up with his email and everything and there is nothing he could do. 

I cant believe its as simple as abbreviating your name and changing your address by adding a . to the end. If it is then it's very poor indeed

[4houghts]

1 minute ago, howfin said:

I cant believe its as simple as abbreviating your name and changing your address by adding a . to the end. If it is then it's very poor indeed

Seen multiple posts of just that, stupid doing it though because it you get caught its a win win for the bookies and they wont pay out. 

[themist]

 I am more than happy to share my GAMSTOP registration details privately and the actual details HB said they had on their system should anyone want them to analyse. 

 

I have gone straight to the gambling commission using the email IBAS gave me. 

11 minutes ago, howfin said:

I cant believe its as simple as abbreviating your name and changing your address by adding a . to the end. If it is then it's very poor indeed

I'm pretty sure that the . was to abbreviate the 'saint' part of my address as my phone automatically corrects it for me when i enter it in the address field (i.e St.) but I don't believe for one second that this should be a reason in itself for a system not to detect a problem gambler, as well as the name. 

[howfin]

It seems unreal that the system would be so poor. I could code a system in my basement that would work better. It's always going to be an uphill battle to get losses back after a spunkage, but if it really is that simple to bypass gamstop id take it as far as you can with the UKGC.