Streamers can be good for the community

[Jok3st3r]

@Denman your posts get deleted when they deserve to be.... this one doesn't fall into that category and imo is a good post with valid points.  

[Guest Chair Slots]

" The best earners should not be the most immoral."

^ Couldn't agree more with this.

[RB91]

28 minutes ago, HorseBurger1989 said:

i see this thread gets left open 

I don't need to repeat myself and wont be bothering on this thread, it seems to get ignored anyway and they jump on anything remotely critical about their preferred streamer 

All streamers are leeches who want sign ups not friends 

There are plenty of open threads slating streamers.

[McSplooger]

Thanks for all the kind responses. Much appreciated! 

@Solario333 I wasn't implying actual hatred should be given to anyone. Just channel that hatred into something more constructive aimed at casinos/UKGC (the facilitators). Pretty much just leave the little guys alone and go for the big guns if they genuinely want change. Much like Rocknrolla put it actually. Maybe I didn't explain too well in my post, sorry! 

@Mining might I actually agree with your points made. However, I don't believe the solution is a blanket ban of the content. People enjoy watching the streams and if they choose to support their favourite via signing up at no cost to them then that surely is not a problem? 

You think along the same lines as me but your missing the point I was making. We both agree that these videos and streams are viewed by a high concentration of people 'at risk' so the promotion of Gamstop is actually way more effective than if it was promoted to general gamblers. That surely is a positive thing? If an addict chooses to ignore messages from the videos and not sign up to Gamstop then surely the blame is on the individual and not the person creating the content. The old saying of "You can lead a horse to water..." springs to mind. I say this as someone who used to think I was largely influenced by the videos when I lost a huge amount of money previously. The blame is on me, not them. 

Streamers as influencers have a lot of power in terms of slot choice, casino and style of play. Hopefully some can become a little bit more aware of their audience and try to help more rather than just take. I do believe someone should step in and force their hand though, I agree with @Denman that the fact its pretty much unregulated is baffling. Clear guidance should be given and anyone acting irresponsibly should be given the boot by affiliate partners. 

The same old debate of this streamer has done this or this streamer is fake is easily quashed with clear rules. Until that happens these debates and indeed the anger surrounding streamers will continue. No one knows who is fake, no one cares how irresponsible the play is and speculation is rife. 

In my opinion what should happen is

1. No fake funds issued by casinos. Anyone in breach gets a heavy fine. 

2. Transparency regarding paid promotion. For example streamer A gets money to review a slot/casino. This should be disclosed before the videos starts so people are aware because they will say its great even when its shit. 

3. Gamstop should be promoted clearly with a brief explanation before the videos starts if you get a potential kickback from the video.

4. Streamers operating an affiliate site should have responsible gambling guidelines clearly visible on site. 

5. No streamer should promote hundreds of casinos and rate them all 4.5 or 5/5 on their site. Independent user driven review sites should be used as a guideline to what casinos are acceptable and have a good rating overall. 

6. Any huge stake video which is deeemed irresponsible such as £20/40 spins should have no affiliate links at all and be purely for entertainment. This isn't because I think people will necessarily try to replicate the bets but I think its a bad look for the casino and gambling in general really. Baiting people to sign up on huge stakes which could cripple 99% of people isn't great. 

I wouldn't want to see everything watered down but rules would make sure everyone wae legitimate and more importantly not misleading. Its kind of sad really for the true gamblers its come to this shit show but the reality is that there's far too many greedy conmen taking advantage. 

 

[Garryboy001]

25 minutes ago, McSplooger said:

Thanks for all the kind responses. Much appreciated! 

@Solario333 I wasn't implying actual hatred should be given to anyone. Just channel that hatred into something more constructive aimed at casinos/UKGC (the facilitators). Pretty much just leave the little guys alone and go for the big guns if they genuinely want change. Much like Rocknrolla put it actually. Maybe I didn't explain too well in my post, sorry! 

@Mining might I actually agree with your points made. However, I don't believe the solution is a blanket ban of the content. People enjoy watching the streams and if they choose to support their favourite via signing up at no cost to them then that surely is not a problem? 

You think along the same lines as me but your missing the point I was making. We both agree that these videos and streams are viewed by a high concentration of people 'at risk' so the promotion of Gamstop is actually way more effective than if it was promoted to general gamblers. That surely is a positive thing? If an addict chooses to ignore messages from the videos and not sign up to Gamstop then surely the blame is on the individual and not the person creating the content. The old saying of "You can lead a horse to water..." springs to mind. I say this as someone who used to think I was largely influenced by the videos when I lost a huge amount of money previously. The blame is on me, not them. 

Streamers as influencers have a lot of power in terms of slot choice, casino and style of play. Hopefully some can become a little bit more aware of their audience and try to help more rather than just take. I do believe someone should step in and force their hand though, I agree with @Denman that the fact its pretty much unregulated is baffling. Clear guidance should be given and anyone acting irresponsibly should be given the boot by affiliate partners. 

The same old debate of this streamer has done this or this streamer is fake is easily quashed with clear rules. Until that happens these debates and indeed the anger surrounding streamers will continue. No one knows who is fake, no one cares how irresponsible the play is and speculation is rife. 

In my opinion what should happen is

1. No fake funds issued by casinos. Anyone in breach gets a heavy fine. 

2. Transparency regarding paid promotion. For example streamer A gets money to review a slot/casino. This should be disclosed before the videos starts so people are aware because they will say its great even when its shit. 

3. Gamstop should be promoted clearly with a brief explanation before the videos starts if you get a potential kickback from the video.

4. Streamers operating an affiliate site should have responsible gambling guidelines clearly visible on site. 

5. No streamer should promote hundreds of casinos and rate them all 4.5 or 5/5 on their site. Independent user driven review sites should be used as a guideline to what casinos are acceptable and have a good rating overall. 

6. Any huge stake video which is deeemed irresponsible such as £20/40 spins should have no affiliate links at all and be purely for entertainment. This isn't because I think people will necessarily try to replicate the bets but I think its a bad look for the casino and gambling in general really. Baiting people to sign up on huge stakes which could cripple 99% of people isn't great. 

I wouldn't want to see everything watered down but rules would make sure everyone wae legitimate and more importantly not misleading. Its kind of sad really for the true gamblers its come to this shit show but the reality is that there's far too many greedy conmen taking advantage. 

 

This is why you should stick around here mate. I enjoy watching streams and videos but I honestly can't disagree with anything you have said here and tbh I'm pretty sure Paul would be more than happy to try and implement any suggestions you have. There's a way to go about things and this is a much better way than creating posts calling streamers all sorts 

[Solario333]

In Principle  I  agree with all the posts you have made and would like to add one or two of my own:

Question 1.

When a casino gives money to a person to play through a bonus how does that affect the RTP to players who don't have bonus funds? 

Question 2.

When a casino cancels money as people fall foul of the terms of a bonus ,where does the money won go--- does it return to the game?  How does it affect the RTP ?

Question 3.

If a casino can vary the RTP for players on Bonus so that high payouts occur , when the bonus is capped at say 500.00 ( i.e. no player can win more than 500.00)  thus although the player win 3k he only gets 500.00 .....what happens to the 2.500 ...does  it go back to the game ? How is the RTP to other players affected? 

Are the casinos using Streamers to apply large stakes so that more RTP remains in their control ??   Ie the wagering takes up so much area or volume of the games action that it actually changes the RTP for others playing the same game.... So the Bandit playing 40.00 spins on DHV  would hoover up all the profit available if he won, yet might  not achieve the wagering required to withdraw the money.   A win win for the casino....

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Solario333

[Kev40]

Streamers can be good for the community. Do i agree or disagree. What i think there is what did we all do before streamers were around. Did we play online. We're there tens of thousands of people with online casino accounts. Were there as many problem gamblers as there are now. Would gamblers be better off if affliation in casinos never existed. Would it be better if they were all banned. Would i of found gamstop if it wasn't for streamers.I never played online until i started watching streamers. I'm very lucky as i didn't lose overall until i decided to stop online gambling but the question is would i of found online casinos if i had never found any streamers. So can streamers be good for the community.  Tough question. 

[Hacko 1]

4 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Streamers can be good for the community. Do i agree or disagree. What i think there is what did we all do before streamers were around. Did we play online. We're there tens of thousands of people with online casino accounts. Were there as many problem gamblers as there are now. Would gamblers be better off if affliation in casinos never existed. Would it be better if they were all banned. Would i of found gamstop if it wasn't for streamers.I never played online until i started watching streamers. I'm very lucky as i didn't lose overall until i decided to stop online gambling but the question is would i of found online casinos if i had never found any streamers. So can streamers be good for the community.  Tough question. 

I found online casinos long before they were streaming on YouTube etc and I think many many gamblers did.

I was absolutely made up when I found these videos of streamers, right up my street because I love gambling in most forms, and love watching it, the videos have not made me more of a degenerate than I already was.

What I will say though is I think today’s available technology with smart phones and tablets etc has made the whole world of gambling more accessible to all at any time of the day. If you wanted to gamble online prior to this it had to be done on a desktop computer at home mainly in the evening when one had finished work, it took me a long time to own a iPhone as I knew what I would do, I finally got one after many many jokes from people when I brought out my ancient relic and yes the inevitable happened.

For me technology was the straw that broke the camels back.

[Garryboy001]

16 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Streamers can be good for the community. Do i agree or disagree. What i think there is what did we all do before streamers were around. Did we play online. We're there tens of thousands of people with online casino accounts. Were there as many problem gamblers as there are now. Would gamblers be better off if affliation in casinos never existed. Would it be better if they were all banned. Would i of found gamstop if it wasn't for streamers.I never played online until i started watching streamers. I'm very lucky as i didn't lose overall until i decided to stop online gambling but the question is would i of found online casinos if i had never found any streamers. So can streamers be good for the community.  Tough question. 

Good honest post mate but I must say I find it hard to believe people wouldn't discover online gambling if it wasn't for streamers. 

[RB91]

46 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

In Principle  I  agree with all the posts you have made and would like to add one or two of my own:

Question 1.

When a casino gives money to a person to play through a bonus how does that affect the RTP to players who don't have bonus funds? 

Question 2.

When a casino cancels money as people fall foul of the terms of a bonus ,where does the money won go--- does it return to the game?  How does it affect the RTP ?

Question 3.

If a casino can vary the RTP for players on Bonus so that high payouts occur , when the bonus is capped at say 500.00 ( i.e. no player can win more than 500.00)  thus although the player win 3k he only gets 500.00 .....what happens to the 2.500 ...does  it go back to the game ? How is the RTP to other players affected? 

Are the casinos using Streamers to apply large stakes so that more RTP remains in their control ??   Ie the wagering takes up so much area or volume of the games action that it actually changes the RTP for others playing the same game.... So the Bandit playing 40.00 spins on DHV  would hoover up all the profit available if he won, yet might  not achieve the wagering required to withdraw the money.   A win win for the casino....

 

 

Literally none of those things affect the games RTP. Slots are Random.

[RB91]

32 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Streamers can be good for the community. Do i agree or disagree. What i think there is what did we all do before streamers were around. Did we play online. We're there tens of thousands of people with online casino accounts. Were there as many problem gamblers as there are now. Would gamblers be better off if affliation in casinos never existed. Would it be better if they were all banned. Would i of found gamstop if it wasn't for streamers.I never played online until i started watching streamers. I'm very lucky as i didn't lose overall until i decided to stop online gambling but the question is would i of found online casinos if i had never found any streamers. So can streamers be good for the community.  Tough question. 

I’ve always played online. But I hadn’t ever watched a slot stream until like a year and a half ago.

[Kev40]

18 minutes ago, Hacko 1 said:

I found online casinos long before they were streaming on YouTube etc and I think many many gamblers did.

I was absolutely made up when I found these videos of streamers, right up my street because I love gambling in most forms, and love watching it, the videos have not made me more of a degenerate than I already was.

What I will say though is I think today’s available technology with smart phones and tablets etc has made the whole world of gambling more accessible to all at any time of the day. If you wanted to gamble online prior to this it had to be done on a desktop computer at home mainly in the evening when one had finished work, it took me a long time to own a iPhone as I knew what I would do, I finally got one after many many jokes from people when I brought out my ancient relic and yes the inevitable happened.

For me technology was the straw that broke the camels back.

Ha i can relate to the phone thing. I had a sony experia till about a year ago. Absolutely useless wouldn't load any game online then made the mistake of upgrading.

[Kev40]

6 minutes ago, RB91 said:

I’ve always played online. But I hadn’t ever watched a slot stream until like a year and a half ago.

Thing is i didn't but then again I'm a bloody dinosaur. No facebook Twitter any social media. Never been on a forum or posted comments until about a year ago. Still lived in the stone age lol. One thing i will say though it's great watching a streamer with absolutely no risk whatsoever. I think if your going to watch a streamer then get out of it what you want out of it whether it's best sites games bonuses info on self exclusion or like me my fix. Use the experience to your advantage.

[Garryboy001]

6 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Ha i can relate to the phone thing. I had a sony experia till about a year ago. Absolutely useless wouldn't load any game online then made the mistake of upgrading.

I've had Sony experias for a few years now and they are great lol you sure you knew how to work it mate lol 

[Kev40]

Just now, Garryboy001 said:

I've had Sony experias for a few years now and they are great lol you sure you knew how to work it mate lol 

Nope believe me technology and me don't work. The bloody thing didn't function properly till midday. 

[RB91]

17 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Thing is i didn't but then again I'm a bloody dinosaur. No facebook Twitter any social media. Never been on a forum or posted comments until about a year ago. Still lived in the stone age lol. One thing i will say though it's great watching a streamer with absolutely no risk whatsoever. I think if your going to watch a streamer then get out of it what you want out of it whether it's best sites games bonuses info on self exclusion or like me my fix. Use the experience to your advantage.

Yeah, I find I gamble a lot less since watching streamers. I still have the odd blowout. But I haven’t spun a slot for like a month, I’m not even trying to stop, I just get my fix like yourself. 

I’ll probably end up losing thousands tomorrow night or something

[JakefraserSufc]

Jesus when did this forum turn into a place full of princesses and snowflakes . Bring back the old mcsplooger anyday and let's have a bit of fuckin drama!!! 

[crazyrightmeow]

8 hours ago, Hacko 1 said:

I found online casinos long before they were streaming on YouTube etc and I think many many gamblers did.

Exactly mate, I started to watch streams or videos maybe 3-4 years ago and was gambling online from aprox. 2009.

[Kinkerbells]

Fucking hell @McSplooger what Happened to you . Great post though tbf it's nice to see especially with so many negative posts and comments bout streamers on here it's nice for a change. I think mostly though people are looking for blame and won't revenge for everything they've lost. I get this but going in a chat and using threatning or aggressive behavior is not the answer. I think a post from Paul or a another streamer needs to be made in regards to the ammount of threats,abuse and general hate these streamers get. As you know I've been round the slot community for many years and the chat can turn absolutely disgusting very quickly. There's just no need.but I do get why they do it. I think responsible gambling needs to be pushed alot more than nightbot popping up every now and then. Every one has a gambling story even streamers and I'd like to see maybe a live one day where they share a story something that we can all relate too and maybe it could help and make people become less bitter towards streamers. I dunno maybe I'm waffling but you get my drift. 

Great post though mate.

Xx

[Solario333]

9 hours ago, RB91 said:

Literally none of those things affect the games RTP. Slots are Random.

According to the mathematical algorithms the slots are supposed to be random ---- But in reality we cannot see any demonstrable proof that they are,and there is plenty of variance that suggests they are not.   There is no fine point of time or measure that proves a slots has paid the 95% plus out as RTP because the measure is never recorded over a specific period or number of spins . I have played on Unibet - (slots only) for the last 13 months and my RTP is 70% ..... this is slot play only ,on slots that return 90% + so Random they are NOT .  If they were random I should have at least one winning month .  The return consistently pays 70% over a month --- thats 20% less than the advertised RTP and only a huge win on a high variance slot would change that ...... odds 100000/1  against .   So am I wrong or does the maths lie?    

[david1111]

6 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

According to the mathematical algorithms the slots are supposed to be random ---- But in reality we cannot see any demonstrable proof that they are,and there is plenty of variance that suggests they are not.   There is no fine point of time or measure that proves a slots has paid the 95% plus out as RTP because the measure is never recorded over a specific period or number of spins . I have played on Unibet - (slots only) for the last 13 months and my RTP is 70% ..... this is slot play only ,on slots that return 90% + so Random they are NOT .  If they were random I should have at least one winning month .  The return consistently pays 70% over a month --- thats 20% less than the advertised RTP and only a huge win on a high variance slot would change that ...... odds 100000/1  against .   So am I wrong or does the maths lie?    

Even when I used to play slots, roulette, poker I never believed it was random at all.

I was just hoping I was playing at the right time.

Some may not agree, but unless they can provide evidence to the contrary I will never change my stance.

[Kev40]

10 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

According to the mathematical algorithms the slots are supposed to be random ---- But in reality we cannot see any demonstrable proof that they are,and there is plenty of variance that suggests they are not.   There is no fine point of time or measure that proves a slots has paid the 95% plus out as RTP because the measure is never recorded over a specific period or number of spins . I have played on Unibet - (slots only) for the last 13 months and my RTP is 70% ..... this is slot play only ,on slots that return 90% + so Random they are NOT .  If they were random I should have at least one winning month .  The return consistently pays 70% over a month --- thats 20% less than the advertised RTP and only a huge win on a high variance slot would change that ...... odds 100000/1  against .   So am I wrong or does the maths lie?    

Unfortunately that's just unlucky. They'll be someone else out there with an rtp of 125% to even things out. My rtp was well over 100% at casumo and over 100% at video slots. The rtp is over millions and millions of spins of all players but don't forget this sites must comply with regulations and they have the edge anyway so there is no need to fiddle the books. This is another debate which has seen hundreds and hundreds of posts. I hope your look changes soon but I'm afraid your just non other than plain unlucky.

[Kev40]

9 minutes ago, david1111 said:

Even when I used to play slots, roulette, poker I never believed it was random at all.

I was just hoping I was playing at the right time.

Some may not agree, but unless they can provide evidence to the contrary I will never change my stance.

I think the figures are probably correct overall every player every spin but that's not to say i wonder whether games are manipulated. New games with a honeymoon period. Games playing awful after a withdrawal. First deposits on a site. It certainly makes you wonder but the one thing I'll say is nothing is ever " due ". 

[Kev40]

5 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

Unfortunately that's just unlucky. They'll be someone else out there with an rtp of 125% to even things out. My rtp was well over 100% at casumo and over 100% at video slots. The rtp is over millions and millions of spins of all players but don't forget this sites must comply with regulations and they have the edge anyway so there is no need to fiddle the books. This is another debate which has seen hundreds and hundreds of posts. I hope your look changes soon but I'm afraid your just non other than plain unlucky.

Luck not look.

[david1111]

4 minutes ago, Kev40 said:

I think the figures are probably correct overall every player every spin but that's not to say i wonder whether games are manipulated. New games with a honeymoon period. Games playing awful after a withdrawal. First deposits on a site. It certainly makes you wonder but the one thing I'll say is nothing is ever " due ". 

That's the thing kev, none of us really know so it's just opinion