Donald Trump

[Blacko]

12 minutes ago, philinvicta said:

The trouble is that the industry is switching to automation in a big way.  AI will make a huge difference over the next fifty years and there will be little use for the little man.  This is why there are experiments in guaranteed incomes whether you work or not starting to take place.   The big question will be what will people do with all the time they have on their hands.

As for Trump protectionism will never work  because industry will fail to work efficiently as they do not need to.  You only have to look how badly a lot of Nationalised industries were run in this country  and when they were exposed to commercial reality they have not been able to cope.

AI for me is my biggest worry! I visited my local bank around 2 years ago, an employee told me to use the automated pay in rather than a teller. I politely told her that I would rather deal with a staff member than a machine as I didn't agree with using technology for everything. 

6 months later the RBS shuts down a majority of its branches citing that people now prefer to bank with the app on their phone rather than use a conventional branch.

Next time anyone visits their local tesco just look at how the till staff are lessening and self scan increasing.

Just 2 small examples of the snowball effect that AI is creating.

[Blacko]

13 minutes ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

I only came on to pick my horses as well

I personally blame Stop and Step for this whole debate. Fucking troublemaker

[Solario333]

34 minutes ago, Miller26 said:

That’s called communism solario. Watch Chernobyl to see how that turned out mate

Incorrect.   Communism does not allow the individual freedom  described by me.  Choice and free will are paramount  in my perspective. 

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

2 minutes ago, Blacko said:

AI for me is my biggest worry! I visited my local bank around 2 years ago, an employee told me to use the automated pay in rather than a teller. I politely told her that I would rather deal with a staff member than a machine as I didn't agree with using technology for everything. 

6 months later the RBS shuts down a majority of its branches citing that people now prefer to bank with the app on their phone rather than use a conventional branch.

Next time anyone visits their local tesco just look at how the till staff are lessening and self scan increasing.

Just 2 small examples of the snowball effect that AI is creating.

I still try to make a habit of using cash and using manned shop checkouts etc, they are slowly forcing us step by step where they want us to go, the latest thing is ATM closures and introducing fees at the ones that are left in place, a year later comes the "look how much the reduction is in people using cash" narrative which will eventually lead to the "do we really need it" conclusion.  

[Solario333]

8 minutes ago, Blacko said:

AI for me is my biggest worry! I visited my local bank around 2 years ago, an employee told me to use the automated pay in rather than a teller. I politely told her that I would rather deal with a staff member than a machine as I didn't agree with using technology for everything. 

6 months later the RBS shuts down a majority of its branches citing that people now prefer to bank with the app on their phone rather than use a conventional branch.

Next time anyone visits their local tesco just look at how the till staff are lessening and self scan increasing.

Just 2 small examples of the snowball effect that AI is creating.

This will all reverse shortly....when money s taken out of the hands of the rich and placed within the grasp of every individual in a constructive and precise interflow of generative power. This will release the real freedom to contribute and be rewarded appropriately that is missing today.

[Hacko 1]

I like his hair, that’s my only comment

[Solario333]

3 minutes ago, Mad Slasher McGurk said:

I still try to make a habit of using cash and using manned shop checkouts etc, they are slowly forcing us step by step where they want us to go, the latest thing is ATM closures and introducing fees at the ones that are left in place, a year later comes the "look how much the reduction is in people using cash" narrative which will eventually lead to the "do we really need it" conclusion.  

The ME FIRST society rule the banks. Now and in the next 6 months the greatest changes that have ever taken place will begin in mid October . The empowerment of the man in the street begins.  In the new world banks do not issue cash , merely govern the transactions with no power to charge above a statutory minimum charge for any transaction.  A wage by age society where everyone who works is paid according to a statutory rate , by age !! Imagine that !! Its coming.   No more £100,000 a week footballers, or celebrity bullshit.

[Blacko]

3 minutes ago, Hacko 1 said:

I like his hair, that’s my only comment

I was originally going to post "Donald Trump! Who would you shag first the wife or the daughter?"

[Hacko 1]

Just now, Blacko said:

I was originally going to post "Donald Trump! Who would you shag first the wife or the daughter?"

both at the same time with don tied up in a chair watching the ordeal

[Blacko]

1 minute ago, Hacko 1 said:

both at the same time with don tied up in a chair watching the ordeal

He would probably enjoy that mate! Especially if he got a golden shower at the end.

[Hacko 1]

Just now, Blacko said:

He would probably enjoy that mate! Especially if he got a golden shower at the end.

Piers Morgan would be there to clean the mess up

[Jok3st3r]

5 minutes ago, Blacko said:

I was originally going to post "Donald Trump! Who would you shag first the wife or the daughter?"

Now you've turned it into that...

3 minutes ago, Hacko 1 said:

both at the same time with don tied up in a chair watching the ordeal

Ordeal?!?!?!?

 

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

8 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

The ME FIRST society rule the banks. Now and in the next 6 months the greatest changes that have ever taken place will begin in mid October . The empowerment of the man in the street begins.  In the new world banks do not issue cash , merely govern the transactions with no power to charge above a statutory minimum charge for any transaction.  A wage by age society where everyone who works is paid according to a statutory rate , by age !! Imagine that !! Its coming.   No more £100,000 a week footballers, or celebrity bullshit.

I just think they will run the exact same scam again only with crypto replacing ink and paper.

[Jok3st3r]

2 hours ago, h0tsh0t87 said:

Try to meet up with a girl under 16 or send photos to a underage person you get a warning or community service but don't pay your TV license you get a jail sentence. 

I'll never understand this, our laws need a good fudging revamp!

[4houghts]

easiest money you will ever make,  & Miller did you really just say what has Trump done in office? I could go on a rant but I feel you wouldn't care anyway because he is the 'orange man' 

America is in a much better position than us anyway

 

[Miller26]

13 minutes ago, 4houghts said:

easiest money you will ever make,  & Miller did you really just say what has Trump done in office? I could go on a rant but I feel you wouldn't care anyway because he is the 'orange man' 

America is in a much better position than us anyway

 

I could as well but we both think differently so there’s no point . Don’t forget that bet we had

[4houghts]

fisa Declas soon lot of people going to jail 

[Guest]

I don't have so much of an opinion on Trump. I admire some of his qualities, I also think he has extremely narrow minded views on some topics and at times he verges on full on hate speech.

 

As for the steel industry subject. Most of you will have that subject fresh in your minds after the collapse of British Steel (aptly renamed by the owners to perhaps play to the bystanding publics heart strings). That particular steelworks has been a loss maker for sometime, hence why Tata sold it for a nominal fee to Greybull Capital. Greybull Capital are often referred to as a "vulture fund". In their short existence they don't exactly have an excellent record of turning these companies around. They still received at least one very large emergency loan from the government to assist them, still it ultimately failed. There has to be a point at which we forget the historical significance of these businesses and stop thinking that they have some god given right to be bailed out time after time. Labour would have it nationalised and continue to bail it out and let it run at a loss. Would people be happy with that? Sure Brexit played a big part, but it is not the sole reason why this business failed.

[Blacko]

34 minutes ago, Denman said:

I don't have so much of an opinion on Trump. I admire some of his qualities, I also think he has extremely narrow minded views on some topics and at times he verges on full on hate speech.

 

As for the steel industry subject. Most of you will have that subject fresh in your minds after the collapse of British Steel (aptly renamed by the owners to perhaps play to the bystanding publics heart strings). That particular steelworks has been a loss maker for sometime, hence why Tata sold it for a nominal fee to Greybull Capital. Greybull Capital are often referred to as a "vulture fund". In their short existence they don't exactly have an excellent record of turning these companies around. They still received at least one very large emergency loan from the government to assist them, still it ultimately failed. There has to be a point at which we forget the historical significance of these businesses and stop thinking that they have some god given right to be bailed out time after time. Labour would have it nationalised and continue to bail it out and let it run at a loss. Would people be happy with that? Sure Brexit played a big part, but it is not the sole reason why this business failed.

Point well made. Has this decline in the steel industry been by mismanagement or the cheap exportation made by the Chinese?.

I only look at Trump from a business perspective and I can see how he wants to keep China at bay. Give it a decade or two and we will be exporting everything from them. Meanwhile Detroit lives in poverty whilst the world produces American cars, Britain has the same story. 

Trump is a loudmouth, racist idiot who really shouldn't have access to twitter, but he has done more in his presidency than Obama could achieve looking good but achieving nothing through his tenureship.

[Mad Slasher McGurk]

3 hours ago, 4houghts said:

fisa Declas soon lot of people going to jail 

Apparently Obama and Clinton were spying on Ted Cruz as well and the MuhRussia narrative won't work on him.

[Guest]

Just now, Blacko said:

Point well made. Has this decline in the steel industry been by mismanagement or the cheap exportation made by the Chinese?.

I only look at Trump from a business perspective and I can see how he wants to keep China at bay. Give it a decade or two and we will be exporting everything from them. Meanwhile Detroit lives in poverty whilst the world produces American cars, Britain has the same story. 

Trump is a loudmouth, racist idiot who really shouldn't have access to twitter, but he has done more in his presidency than Obama could achieve looking good but achieving nothing through his tenureship.

 

Myth (for now at least).

 

Around 60-70% of our Steel Imports are from the EU. The information is out there for anyone to view. We do however have a large trade deficit with China this is namely due to electronics. That in itself is not surprising, the UK has one of the biggest and most lucrative consumer markets in the world and China has goods, lots of them too and we like to buy them.

 

The question itself it difficult to answer. The British Steel Industry has been subsidised by the government for many years. The Chinese Steel Industry has pretty much only emerged in the last 15-20 years, it too has been massively subsidised by their government. I believe 85% of that industry in China is owned by their government. They have gone from having 0% to near 50% of Steel production in the world in that period. This maybe a slightly inaccurate "fact" but I do recall reading that they produced more steel in the last year that the UK produced in the last 100 years, try get your head around that, the sheer scale of their production is insane and it is still very much growing!  They do not play to the same rules and regulation as we do however, we are heavily restricted by EU and WTO regulation. The Chinese in theory are restricted by WTO regulation also, but they have pretty much been ignoring it and doing whatever the heck they want. They are receiving massive subsidisation and selling their lower quality (not always the case, from my understanding they realised they couldn't compete with the higher grade production and switched to lower grade minerals) product dirt cheap in a market that is working way overcapacity. They are doing so intentionally to squeeze the market. But we still produce better quality and specialised products that do have a demand still, so whats going wrong for us? Probably the running costs. Its been a problem for many years, it is expensive to produce in this country. It will only continue to get more and more expensive. Labour costs, energy costs, heavy restrictions on emissions etc are all huge factors alongside Brexit and alongside the Chinese. The US has the same problem when trying to compete with emerging markets such as China**.

 

**Just consider labour costs for example between a developed market and an emerging market, Google says our average steel worker is on £36k a year, the average Chinese steel worker is on around £6k a year.

 

Such industries are far beyond my area of expertise however, so I wouldn't take my *opinion* as the gospel truth.

 

[Solario333]

1 hour ago, Blacko said:

Point well made. Has this decline in the steel industry been by mismanagement or the cheap exportation made by the Chinese?.

I only look at Trump from a business perspective and I can see how he wants to keep China at bay. Give it a decade or two and we will be exporting everything from them. Meanwhile Detroit lives in poverty whilst the world produces American cars, Britain has the same story. 

Trump is a loudmouth, racist idiot who really shouldn't have access to twitter, but he has done more in his presidency than Obama could achieve looking good but achieving nothing through his tenureship.

Your statement says much about society in our world . Good people say nothing and let the rot continue , year after year.  Dogmatic and narrow vested interest sometimes coincides with the right action to cut out the cancer that paralyses our world. political and monetary interference in our daily lives . @Denman has made a valid point , when observed from the balance sheet --- but for those whose lives depend on weekly wages , society must do more, more often and more honestly to create jobs that have real value , and are not undermined by the global marketplace. It is this marketplace  that has set America on a collision course with China, whose appetite for other peoples ideas, land , money and time, knows no bounds. So bring 100 Trumps to power if they will stop the nonsense and bad faith the rich have shown in the peoples of the world.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Solario333

[Blacko]

27 minutes ago, Denman said:

 

Myth (for now at least).

 

Around 60-70% of our Steel Imports are from the EU. The information is out there for anyone to view. We do however have a large trade deficit with China this is namely due to electronics. That in itself is not surprising, the UK has one of the biggest and most lucrative consumer markets in the world and China has goods, lots of them too and we like to buy them.

 

The question itself it difficult to answer. The British Steel Industry has been subsidised by the government for many years. The Chinese Steel Industry has pretty much only emerged in the last 15-20 years, it too has been massively subsidised by their government. I believe 85% of that industry in China is owned by their government. They have gone from having 0% to near 50% of Steel production in the world in that period. This maybe a slightly inaccurate "fact" but I do recall reading that they produced more steel in the last year that the UK produced in the last 100 years, try get your head around that, the sheer scale of their production is insane and it is still very much growing!  They do not play to the same rules and regulation as we do however, we are heavily restricted by EU and WTO regulation. The Chinese in theory are restricted by WTO regulation also, but they have pretty much been ignoring it and doing whatever the heck they want. They are receiving massive subsidisation and selling their lower quality (not always the case, from my understanding they realised they couldn't compete with the higher grade production and switched to lower grade minerals) product dirt cheap in a market that is working way overcapacity. They are doing so intentionally to squeeze the market. But we still produce better quality and specialised products that do have a demand still, so whats going wrong for us? Probably the running costs. Its been a problem for many years, it is expensive to produce in this country. It will only continue to get more and more expensive. Labour costs, energy costs, heavy restrictions on emissions etc are all huge factors alongside Brexit and alongside the Chinese. The US has the same problem when trying to compete with emerging markets such as China**.

 

**Just consider labour costs for example between a developed market and an emerging market, Google says our average steel worker is on £36k a year, the average Chinese steel worker is on around £6k a year.

 

Such industries are far beyond my area of expertise however, so I wouldn't take my *opinion* as the gospel truth.

 

Denman. If you weren't so anti-Scottish then I think I would grow to like you a little bit more. An excellent point made on the "fast rise" of China in regards to the steel industry. Your point has certainly got me thinking on how quickly the Chinese government is taking advantage of cheap labour in crippling industry in the West.

In reflection to everyone's contributions I worry about the state of the UK in 20-30 years time. I am in my mid 40s so it won't affect me as much as our youngsters but I do honestly ponder what employment paths will be available down the line.

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

Your statement says much about society in our world . Good people say nothing and let the rot continue , year after year.  Dogmatic and narrow vested interest sometimes coincides with the right action to cut out the cancer that paralyses our world. political and monetary interference in our daily lives . @Denman has made a valid point , when observed from the balance sheet --- but for those whose lives depend on weekly wages , society must do more, more often and more honestly to create jobs that have real value , and are not undermined by the global marketplace. It is this marketplace  that has set America on a collision course with China, whose appetite for other peoples dead, land , money and time, knows no bounds. So bring 100 Trumps to power if they will stop the nonsense and bad faith the rich have shown in the peoples of the world.

 

I began writing a publication many years ago that I never quite finished, that focused on how to create jobs within our country and prevent the loss of manufacturing jobs in particular. I don't claim that my solution was unique, many had said it prior and many since. It is not a solution that can be fixed government vs government. It has to be consumers and governments vs the corporations. Clean up their manufacturing abroad (adopt fair working practices and pay them a fair wage) or face heavy penalisation if they want to sell their products in our consumer market. It leaves them two options effectively, both probably working out similarly in terms of cost effectiveness; continue to produce these products abroad, albeit with far lower profit margins than before or produce them within the developed market countries still with a lower profit margin than before, I am not saying these corporations should be forced to produce here, but at least make ourselves less unattractive for them. At current we are far too lenient with these corporations who are producing their products almost entirely aimed at western markets in Asia, exploiting the cheaper labour and manufacturing costs available there.

 

[Miller26]

41 minutes ago, Denman said:

 

Myth (for now at least).

 

Around 60-70% of our Steel Imports are from the EU. The information is out there for anyone to view. We do however have a large trade deficit with China this is namely due to electronics. That in itself is not surprising, the UK has one of the biggest and most lucrative consumer markets in the world and China has goods, lots of them too and we like to buy them.

 

The question itself it difficult to answer. The British Steel Industry has been subsidised by the government for many years. The Chinese Steel Industry has pretty much only emerged in the last 15-20 years, it too has been massively subsidised by their government. I believe 85% of that industry in China is owned by their government. They have gone from having 0% to near 50% of Steel production in the world in that period. This maybe a slightly inaccurate "fact" but I do recall reading that they produced more steel in the last year that the UK produced in the last 100 years, try get your head around that, the sheer scale of their production is insane and it is still very much growing!  They do not play to the same rules and regulation as we do however, we are heavily restricted by EU and WTO regulation. The Chinese in theory are restricted by WTO regulation also, but they have pretty much been ignoring it and doing whatever the heck they want. They are receiving massive subsidisation and selling their lower quality (not always the case, from my understanding they realised they couldn't compete with the higher grade production and switched to lower grade minerals) product dirt cheap in a market that is working way overcapacity. They are doing so intentionally to squeeze the market. But we still produce better quality and specialised products that do have a demand still, so whats going wrong for us? Probably the running costs. Its been a problem for many years, it is expensive to produce in this country. It will only continue to get more and more expensive. Labour costs, energy costs, heavy restrictions on emissions etc are all huge factors alongside Brexit and alongside the Chinese. The US has the same problem when trying to compete with emerging markets such as China**.

 

**Just consider labour costs for example between a developed market and an emerging market, Google says our average steel worker is on £36k a year, the average Chinese steel worker is on around £6k a year.

 

Such industries are far beyond my area of expertise however, so I wouldn't take my *opinion* as the gospel truth.

 

That’s just about spot on mate