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Okay so to those of you that don't know, certain providers have variable maths models for there games, for instance Play'n GO have 2 versions of Book Of Dead, 94.2% RTP is the lowest version and 96.21% is the highest version.

In a nutshell, Videoslots are now running on the lowest versions of these games for the UK which they announced in Feb but you probably wouldn't of seen it as its hidden on a back page, you'd think something like that would be front page news!

How does this effect you as a player? It has a massive effect, 2% difference in RTP will lower your expected game time by around 30% :JMC:

What does this mean to you? It means if you're going to play Play'n GO, Pragmatic Play, Red Tiger or IGT then I suggest you play anywhere but Videoslots, if you wondering about all the other providers, they have a fixed RTP and will be the same at any casino, it's just the 4 providers listed above.

1964338161_Screenshot2019-03-05at13_23_11.png.9dc04291e8de50eef5f7c1bcb13bdf6d.png

 

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That's a massive difference if you take over a period of time. Have the taxes increased in the UK?

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I think this is a classic example of the casinos being squeezed with compliance and regulation 

The poor punter yet again will be the one that suffers

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I was always told by everyone that casinos had no say in the rtp i think even Nick was surprised when he mentioned it earlier

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58 minutes ago, Markymark said:

That's a massive difference if you take over a period of time. Have the taxes increased in the UK?

I think they mean in relation to accepting players from those countries, so it now costs them more to allow us UK players, bear in mind there all based in Malta and I think the income tax is 5% or something daft

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55 minutes ago, david1111 said:

I think this is a classic example of the casinos being squeezed with compliance and regulation 

The poor punter yet again will be the one that suffers

from what I can see the casinos have made every attempt to avoid  compliance and to use the rules to benefit themselves,and once again  the Punter will pay the bill , both to the casino ,and of course the British Government...who have allowed this ridiculous situation to develop without any shred of consideration for the people who pay the bill .....What a surprise !!  

I am not playing on videoslots now.  I will stay with WH, Unibet and Betfair for a while, but may completely forego online slots if this continues....

Notice how the statement is dated 18 Feb and here we are in March , non the wiser........ but for the online streamer who has leaked the info !! and of course this statement from @MrUKHackz to whom I offer a big thank you for being up front about the scandal.....

Edited by Solario333
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10 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

from what I can see the casinos have made every attempt to avoid  compliance and to use the rules to benefit themselves,and once again  the Punter will pay the bill , both to the casino ,and of course the British Government...who have allowed this ridiculous situation to develop without any shred of consideration for the people who pay the bill .....What a surprise !!  

I am not playing on videoslots now.  I will stay with WH, Unibet and Betfair for a while, but may completely forego online slots if this continues....

Notice how the statement is dated 18 Feb and here we are in March , non the wiser........ but for the online streamer who has leaked the info !! and of course this statement from @MrUKHackz to whom I offer a big thank you for being up front about the scandal.....

From what i have seen watching Paul etc stream, I think its evident that something had changed.

The big wins are few and far between.

What we are seeing at the moment is an occasional huge, huge win such as Nick on Primal winning 27k.

Now does this mean that most players are being stiffed so they can build up for that huge release which will keep everyone interested, ie it could be me.

Imo the slots are supposed to be fun, but right now it appears you need an endless supply of funds to keep feeding them which is not conjusive for an average punter

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I wonder how long before everyone else follows suit, if they haven't done so already. 

@MrUKHackz MrUKOracle would you know who offers the higher RTP and who offers the lower? ?‍?

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25 minutes ago, david1111 said:

From what i have seen watching Paul etc stream, I think its evident that something had changed.

The big wins are few and far between.

What we are seeing at the moment is an occasional huge, huge win such as Nick on Primal winning 27k.

Now does this mean that most players are being stiffed so they can build up for that huge release which will keep everyone interested, ie it could be me.

Imo the slots are supposed to be fun, but right now it appears you need an endless supply of funds to keep feeding them which is not conjusive for an average punter

Quite simply the pattern favours those  who pay the most into the casino...ie big punters, Streamers ,and regulars who play medium /high stakes.... so depending on which tier you're on,depend whether the ~Game you play pays you at a certain rate !!  So this malarkey has been gong on for years !! Its only because of the high variance of BTG that no-one has spotted the anomaly, putting it down to high variance  avoids paying out...... except no-one except 1% of the 1% got real cash to withdraw, because the casinos have become ultra corrupt .

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7 minutes ago, Solario333 said:

Quite simply the pattern favours those  who pay the most into the casino...ie big punters, Streamers ,and regulars who play medium /high stakes.... so depending on which tier you're on,depend whether the ~Game you play pays you at a certain rate !!  So this malarkey has been gong on for years !! Its only because of the high variance of BTG that no-one has spotted the anomaly, putting it down to high variance  avoids paying out...... except no-one except 1% of the 1% got real cash to withdraw, because the casinos have become ultra corrupt .

Do you really believe that? 

I hear it so often about flicking to streamer switch on but kinda took it all tongue in cheek. 

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3 hours ago, MrUKHackz said:

you probably wouldn't of seen it as its hidden on a back page, you'd think something like that would be front page news!

It's on the back page for a very good reason mate

 

The  BIG PRINT Giveth.......

....And the small print taketh away 

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1 hour ago, Jok3st3r said:

Do you really believe that? 

I hear it so often about flicking to streamer switch on but kinda took it all tongue in cheek. 

Streamers play an awful lot of spins and advertise the casino ....its good business to pay them well.....but Big punters get better treatment. VIP clients have a personal arrangement ---- who knows the truth !  I can only say what I observe...

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It's not actually videoslots fault its the UKGC gaming tax 15-21% or something like that so business have to find a way to compensate this.

I play on videoslots as my main casino and

I don't play the providers listed much anyway ?

so won't affect me much x but others who do play these providers on videoslots I suggest like hackz said play else where. or don't play them providers.

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RTP is a load of nonsense. Over ten years show mw any punter whose had over 50% RTP in any year !!

if I gamble 30k on slots a month --- how much will I get back ??  90% no a great deal less , month on month it decreases . RTP is an accounting con because there is no fixed period by which the percentage must be paid.....its just like brexit ---a complete farce..... When is democracy not a democracy  when politics takes charge --- same in gambling.

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2 hours ago, Jok3st3r said:

I wonder how long before everyone else follows suit, if they haven't done so already. 

@MrUKHackz MrUKOracle would you know who offers the higher RTP and who offers the lower? ?‍?

Remember this is only relevant to those 4 providers, you don't have to worry about the likes of Netent, BTG, Push Gaming, Thunderkick, etc etc wherever you play, anyway back to the question...

2 hours ago, Jok3st3r said:

@MrUKHackz MrUKOracle would you know who offers the higher RTP and who offers the lower? ?‍?

Yes the lowest is offered by Videoslots for those 4 providers (Pragmatic Play, Play'n GO, Red Tiger, IGT)

The highest is basically everywhere else I have checked apart from Videoslots!

For instance, Dunder, Slotsmillion, 21casino all have the highest versions of Pragmatic and PlayN Go games I checked

If you want to look yourself you can open the game, click the question mark ? at the bottom of the slot or the top, scroll through and you'll see the RTP of that version listed there. I just checked Da Vinci's treasure and its 95% RTP at Videoslots and 96.53% elsewhere, that 1.53% though is huge in the grand scheme of things.

Screenshot 2019-03-05 at 17.50.00.pngScreenshot 2019-03-05 at 17.48.09.png

 

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Cheers Hacks , i watched the video by Degsy Degworth on youtube about this , very shady of video slots not mentioning this (apart from tiny news article that no one was every going to find ) so in a nutshell playing the same game on lower r.t.p  you can expect now to get HALF the winnings compered to Higher r.t.p  and videoslots make TWICE as much profit , disgusting

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5 hours ago, MrUKHackz said:

Okay so to those of you that don't know, certain providers have variable maths models for there games, for instance Play'n GO have 2 versions of Book Of Dead, 94.2% RTP is the lowest version and 96.21% is the highest version.

In a nutshell, Videoslots are now running on the lowest versions of these games for the UK which they announced in Feb but you probably wouldn't of seen it as its hidden on a back page, you'd think something like that would be front page news!

How does this effect you as a player? It has a massive effect, 2% difference in RTP will lower your expected game time by around 30% :JMC:

What does this mean to you? It means if you're going to play Play'n GO, Pragmatic Play, Red Tiger or IGT then I suggest you play anywhere but Videoslots, if you wondering about all the other providers, they have a fixed RTP and will be the same at any casino, it's just the 4 providers listed above.

1964338161_Screenshot2019-03-05at13_23_11.png.9dc04291e8de50eef5f7c1bcb13bdf6d.png

 

well spotted boss man.... greedy fudgers,  after brexit it will probably go down further so watch out!

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Anyone who thinks this is the result of government taxes is deluded.

This is purely about greed on behalf of the industry as a whole - casinos who put out the lower grade stuff and the providers who facilitate it by providing the different RTP models.

The UKGC will eventually catch up on this type of stealth switching but the scandal of varying RTPs will remain.

The chopley video on it is well worth a watch.

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1 hour ago, PieGamble said:

Anyone who thinks this is the result of government taxes is deluded.

This is purely about greed on behalf of the industry as a whole - casinos who put out the lower grade stuff and the providers who facilitate it by providing the different RTP models.

The UKGC will eventually catch up on this type of stealth switching but the scandal of varying RTPs will remain.

The chopley video on it is well worth a watch.

Ive been going on about this manipulation since last year , how casinos tailor the RTP to the player,according to the level of income stream. Its Immoral,and deceitful and should be illegal.

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2% won't make much difference to the average small time punter who does the occasional few hundred spins. You might say you get 30% less game time or whatever but remember it's massively swingy even at 94% and these RTPs are worked out over a something daft like a trillion spins, so you'll hardly tell the difference.

That being said it is a bit of a fucking cheek. But I'm not going to hate on VS. Other sites will follow suit, at least they were the first ones to stick their head above the parapet.

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10 hours ago, Solario333 said:

Ive been going on about this manipulation since last year , how casinos tailor the RTP to the player,according to the level of income stream. Its Immoral,and deceitful and should be illegal.

We are not talking about the same thing.

I am referring to the practice of having multiple fixed odds RTP models for the same slot machine.

I think you are referring to something other than fixed odds i.e. compensated odds.

But there is nothing to stop a casino changing the RTP as and when they wish. And here are some examples of the kind of shit they can legally get away with:-

Example 1

Casino is losing a shit tonne of money one evening. To try and reverse their losses they swap all slots from the 96% model to the 92% model. They then manage to claw their money back. At that point they reinstate the higher RTP models to get the players back. The player would only become aware of this if they were to check the help file for the RTP.

Example 2

Casino wants to do a promotion to get the players in. They want to limit their exposure so setup their site to present the lower rtp versions of the slots when customer is on a bonus balance. Once bonus balance has been either withdrawn or lost the higher rtp versions of the games are reinstated.

Example 3

Customer A is on an incredible winning streak. The casino decide to configure the website so that player A and only player A is presented with the lower RTP version of those same slot machines which provided the winning streak. The losses will eventually come fast and hard.

Example 4

Casino decide that any player who is in profit is presented with the lower versions of those slot machines. Once the player moves into the red the higher rtp versions of the slots are again presented to the user. If they manage to get into the green - rinse and repeat.

All of the above is perfectly legal and above board. What a load of bollocks 

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I'm not sure about what you've posted there @PieGamble . I don't think it's quite as cowboy as you're making out.

I'd be very surprised if casinos can change the RTP model for certain players. I'd be equally surprised if they can flick back and forth between RTP models at the drop of a hat.

My understanding would be that if a casino is making a big change such as adjusting their RTPs they would have to put an announcement out every time. It wouldn't surprise me if they have to run their change past the UKGC first. Maybe I'm being naive. Maybe @JackSparks can shed more light on this?

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