4kingidiot Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hi Guys. Spent all my life gambling and love it but also regret the damage it has done in my life. Full responsibility does sit with me and I accept that. I work every day and pay my bills not to say I dont have mountainous credit card debt. Its only me that misses out so I long for the odd win that allows me to buy non neccessities and makes it worth getting out of bed for the day. Im not a victim only Im to blame. Hopefully that was a nice introduction to the following. Over the last few months I have spent all my earnings on online casinos. On Saturday I had $100 to spare. I joined up with a new online casino and received a welcome bonus. I had heard really bad stories about casinos not paying out on withdrawals etc so I read the conditions. To cut a long story short I deposited $100NZD I received 150% welcome bonus. I had $100 added to my real money account and $150 to my Bonus account. The terms said the following. .You need to wager the bonus amount 35x before release into the real money account. ...The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is $5. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings. I played Live blackjack with my real money for the first short session ($10-$30 per bet) This money was exhausted extremely quickly and my balance went to zero. As the bonus money wasnt allowed to be used on live bLackjack(and didnt show in my balance) I kept to the rules. I now started using the $150 bonus money(the wagering was at zero % as live blackjack did not contribute) I spent the next 4 hours playing Raging Rhino and Book of Dead at no higher stake than $4. I got my balance up to $6000 and I meet the 35 x wagering requirement. This money then became real money in my account. After 4 hours of playing at $4 per bet I finally got to increase the bets to $12-$60 per bet. I ended up cashing out $5000 which is life changing for me. Today I received the dreaded email that said "you breached our maximum bet clause and your winnings have been confiscated and your $100 has been put back into your account" WTF. I finished work early due to increased worry as I was relying on this withdrawal. (I needed answers immediately. I went immediately to Live chat and they quoted a time stamp of the breach.I then received an email from the casino to say that Live chat will no longer be helping me and I would have to wait 28 days for an investigation and no information will be available from the CS team until the investigation was complete. I went through 300 pages of logs I found in my accounts page. I did not once bet more than $4 per bet when I was playing with Bonus money. The time stamp related to my first $13 dollar bet on blackjack with the real money. Im guessing their argument is somehow related to the real money I used on Blackjack at the start of the session? This in no way contributed to wagering requirements and also is not my interpretation of their rules. I would have hoped that a casino would have to have some kind of integrity. Im fighting this all the way. advise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonin Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 First of all, Welcome to the Forum! Sorry to hear that mate I've no advice. But, i just wanted to say "They're ridiculous"! When people are winning, they don't want to pay out ... It's a shame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kingidiot Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 Thanks for the kind words 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h0tsh0t87 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hopefully they pay you out bud I'm sure you will get good advice off members of this forum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kingidiot Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 I was relying on them having integrity in the first instance. Im also concerned for their new customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocknrolla Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 @4kingidiot What casino was it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solario333 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Often the balance wagered X35 includes any bet made during the Wagering period, so you may have contravened the bonus without realising it. Conversely since the casino dd not specify this in its terms and conditions you may have a case against them which is valid. Both statements apply here but which is valid I cannot say ..... not knowing which casino ?? Welcome to TGC. Edited January 30, 2019 by Solario333 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poker Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, 4kingidiot said: Hi Guys. Spent all my life gambling and love it but also regret the damage it has done in my life. Full responsibility does sit with me and I accept that. I work every day and pay my bills not to say I dont have mountainous credit card debt. Its only me that misses out so I long for the odd win that allows me to buy non neccessities and makes it worth getting out of bed for the day. Im not a victim only Im to blame. Hopefully that was a nice introduction to the following. Over the last few months I have spent all my earnings on online casinos. On Saturday I had $100 to spare. I joined up with a new online casino and received a welcome bonus. I had heard really bad stories about casinos not paying out on withdrawals etc so I read the conditions. To cut a long story short I deposited $100NZD I received 150% welcome bonus. I had $100 added to my real money account and $150 to my Bonus account. The terms said the following. .You need to wager the bonus amount 35x before release into the real money account. ...The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is $5. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings. I played Live blackjack with my real money for the first short session ($10-$30 per bet) This money was exhausted extremely quickly and my balance went to zero. As the bonus money wasnt allowed to be used on live bLackjack(and didnt show in my balance) I kept to the rules. I now started using the $150 bonus money(the wagering was at zero % as live blackjack did not contribute) I spent the next 4 hours playing Raging Rhino and Book of Dead at no higher stake than $4. I got my balance up to $6000 and I meet the 35 x wagering requirement. This money then became real money in my account. After 4 hours of playing at $4 per bet I finally got to increase the bets to $12-$60 per bet. I ended up cashing out $5000 which is life changing for me. Today I received the dreaded email that said "you breached our maximum bet clause and your winnings have been confiscated and your $100 has been put back into your account" WTF. I finished work early due to increased worry as I was relying on this withdrawal. (I needed answers immediately. I went immediately to Live chat and they quoted a time stamp of the breach.I then received an email from the casino to say that Live chat will no longer be helping me and I would have to wait 28 days for an investigation and no information will be available from the CS team until the investigation was complete. I went through 300 pages of logs I found in my accounts page. I did not once bet more than $4 per bet when I was playing with Bonus money. The time stamp related to my first $13 dollar bet on blackjack with the real money. Im guessing their argument is somehow related to the real money I used on Blackjack at the start of the session? This in no way contributed to wagering requirements and also is not my interpretation of their rules. I would have hoped that a casino would have to have some kind of integrity. Im fighting this all the way. advise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Welcome to the TGC Loveboat 4King First thing, so anyone (not just anyone on TGC!) can assist, help or offer up some similar experience with the casino, is to name it here... Next, make sure that you save a PDF copy (eg: in windows save to PDF) with the time stamp on the pages you save option switched on, this will help if the said casino that is saying you have breached any terms, deletes or adjusts any data on your account or on their systems. Sounds like, from what you have said, you have a good case to get what you actually won in full and not what they say you have won and offered you. Obviously there are TWO sides to every gamblers story or stake session, so keep that in mind, if they ask you X and expect you to answer Z!!! Due to the timezone differences, likely you will see some of these answers in the morning your time Try and fill in some more details about who, where, when etc etc and sure @Rocknrolla might have some ammo in HMS casino destroyer, to help.. Also we have our very own resident casino expert on board, in the lovely shape of @Nicola what she knows about solving issues with licenced gambling entities, is more than all the forums on the subject put together, so maybe DM her or contact here here in your thread. 5000NZD$ is a lot of money, so DO NOT give up getting it!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieFC Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 @4kingidiot Unfortunately it is usually the case that when taking a deposit bonus the T&Cs are attached to the whole session of play. So basically whether or not you have dipped in to the bonus funds, the norm' is that max bet rules etc still apply. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBingoKingx Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, RichieFC said: @4kingidiot Unfortunately it is usually the case that when taking a deposit bonus the T&Cs are attached to the whole session of play. So basically whether or not you have dipped in to the bonus funds, the norm' is that max bet rules etc still apply. Unfortunately i have to agree on this. Im sorry mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chair Slots Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yeah what Richie said. Sorry pal. It does look like they need to be clearer on their max bet guidelines though. something like "The maximum bet allowed is $5. This covers usage of both your real money balance and bonus money balance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangers Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 That is shocking and sadly I can't see them turning, many bonuses are laced with various rules and terms that make it pointless accepting, the setup design on most bonuses is to get the player into a repetitive playing rhythm, ''The more you play the more the brain is stimulated'' the end result leading to the desire for MORE and MORE - end result uploading more cash and addiction. The Casio bonus is just the bait, the lure. Thanks for taking the time to share your story but sadly in the world of Gambling we are all just small little fish in a vast Ocean full of very hungry Sharks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kingidiot Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Hi The casino was Casimba Looking at the posts it looks like I haven't got a leg to stand on if the casino has no integrity. I honestly interpreted the "When bonus money is in play" to mean when the bonus money is being played. I thought the real money was ok to spend at any denomination. I asked the casino for a copy of my logs but they have not provided the request. I did go through the logs online yesterday and screen printed 300 pages to file. It clearly shows that I was not trying to deceive anyone. The logs show - I deposited then went to Live tables. 6 pages of logs of real money play. My account then showed zero and then went to slots with $150 bonus money and bet $4 per bet for around 280 pages until the bonus was released to real money. In their clause it says that the casino will reserve the right to cancel the winnings but I suppose they would need Integrity to consider the above. Anyways my shock has reduced and life goes on. I will still try get the word out there about this casino. I will write a post later tonight with more evidence of why I think they are deceiving customers and a few complaints I have found on the web that does bring their Integrity into doubt. I would like to know how many % of their customers that cash in Bonuses are declined due to this clause . Also if I won $5000 at the casino and this is cancelled what does this to player returns and payout rates. I won $5000 that I wont receive but there will be some poor bugger that will lose 96-98% of that and the casino profits. Thanks all for your replies and I will leave a few images of other wording I have found on this clause. Have a great day. The following was found on POGG and the casimba website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieFC Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 @4kingidiot Following on from my earlier comment and looking at the pics you have posted, the 4th paragraph on the 1st pic is interesting. To me that says what it has to you, you can do anything you want with your cash funds on the casino "This also means that bonus restrictions, do not apply while you are wagering with your deposited fumds" how else can that be taken really? Then the last pic, point 4 again says different and basically what I said in my 1st post. It's all very confusing. Others will know more about the casino but I believe it is under the same umbrella as 21casino so maybe @JackSparks could help or know of a contact that can. Please don't get your hopes up again based on what I have said as I can only go on the information you have put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kingidiot Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Thanks Richie. Point 4 you quote was on The Pogg and is not on the website. The Poggs breakdown of the conditions is interesting though as it aligned with my interpretation. I am really pissed but I am also a realist so resigned to the fact that I will not see my money. I did look on the Malta Gaming Authority where they hold their license. There is a clause where the casino has to follow Part VII of the Consumer Affairs Act. Please read section below. It would be interesting to know how many customers cash out on a Welcome Bonus and what percentage have their winnings confiscated due to interpretation of the conditions. Bed time now, have a great day all Edited January 31, 2019 by 4kingidiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kingidiot Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSparks Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, RichieFC said: @4kingidiot Following on from my earlier comment and looking at the pics you have posted, the 4th paragraph on the 1st pic is interesting. To me that says what it has to you, you can do anything you want with your cash funds on the casino "This also means that bonus restrictions, do not apply while you are wagering with your deposited fumds" how else can that be taken really? Then the last pic, point 4 again says different and basically what I said in my 1st post. It's all very confusing. Others will know more about the casino but I believe it is under the same umbrella as 21casino so maybe @JackSparks could help or know of a contact that can. Please don't get your hopes up again based on what I have said as I can only go on the information you have put. Hey Guys, This casino is operated by a different licensee under the white hat gaming platform. Unfortunately I have no sway there. What I can say, is that the terms are correct and in line with all regulation, so they are within their right to take it. The only way you'll get paid is if their management decide to pay it. A point of note for everyone reading this, UK players have very different criteria than players under the MGA license. All UK players can bet any amount with their cash balance as it cannot be tied to the bonus. This is industry wide and not casino specific. So when comparing terms above, the POGG terms are in GBP and therefore for UK players, and do not apply to this case. The terms showing $ are the ones relating to this player. There will be differences between them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieFC Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 @JackSparks Thank you for your reply buddy. So in short for all UK players based on what you have said that no matter if there are bonus funds waiting for you in your balance, people can bet as high as they want as long as they have not dipped in to the bonus amount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSparks Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, RichieFC said: @JackSparks Thank you for your reply buddy. So in short for all UK players based on what you have said that no matter if there are bonus funds waiting for you in your balance, people can bet as high as they want as long as they have not dipped in to the bonus amount? Well it's not as clear cut as that so i dont want to lure anyone down the garden path. But without notice you will breach it in game then yes. I believe Genesis and GiG casinos have a pop up which stops you from breaking the max bet rule in game which allows them to enforce a max bet with cash balance when a bonus is in play. It's very clear, or should be made very clear to all UK players in the terms of the bonus that cash is separate to bonus funds. All UK players also have to see a bonus and cash balance now whereas before quite often it was combined. No cash funds can be tied to a bonus balance for UK players anymore either, which means all bonuses for UK players are 'non - sticky'. This was all part of the CMA update awhile back. Anyway, i'm not here to talk too much about Casimba. If you're playing a white hat gaming site you should always be choosing 21 anyway 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewweEDGEHAD Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 30/01/2019 at 10:18, 4kingidiot said: Hi Guys. Spent all my life gambling and love it but also regret the damage it has done in my life. Full responsibility does sit with me and I accept that. I work every day and pay my bills not to say I dont have mountainous credit card debt. Its only me that misses out so I long for the odd win that allows me to buy non neccessities and makes it worth getting out of bed for the day. Im not a victim only Im to blame. Hopefully that was a nice introduction to the following. Over the last few months I have spent all my earnings on online casinos. On Saturday I had $100 to spare. I joined up with a new online casino and received a welcome bonus. I had heard really bad stories about casinos not paying out on withdrawals etc so I read the conditions. To cut a long story short I deposited $100NZD I received 150% welcome bonus. I had $100 added to my real money account and $150 to my Bonus account. The terms said the following. .You need to wager the bonus amount 35x before release into the real money account. ...The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is $5. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings. I played Live blackjack with my real money for the first short session ($10-$30 per bet) This money was exhausted extremely quickly and my balance went to zero. As the bonus money wasnt allowed to be used on live bLackjack(and didnt show in my balance) I kept to the rules. I now started using the $150 bonus money(the wagering was at zero % as live blackjack did not contribute) I spent the next 4 hours playing Raging Rhino and Book of Dead at no higher stake than $4. I got my balance up to $6000 and I meet the 35 x wagering requirement. This money then became real money in my account. After 4 hours of playing at $4 per bet I finally got to increase the bets to $12-$60 per bet. I ended up cashing out $5000 which is life changing for me. Today I received the dreaded email that said "you breached our maximum bet clause and your winnings have been confiscated and your $100 has been put back into your account" WTF. I finished work early due to increased worry as I was relying on this withdrawal. (I needed answers immediately. I went immediately to Live chat and they quoted a time stamp of the breach.I then received an email from the casino to say that Live chat will no longer be helping me and I would have to wait 28 days for an investigation and no information will be available from the CS team until the investigation was complete. I went through 300 pages of logs I found in my accounts page. I did not once bet more than $4 per bet when I was playing with Bonus money. The time stamp related to my first $13 dollar bet on blackjack with the real money. Im guessing their argument is somehow related to the real money I used on Blackjack at the start of the session? This in no way contributed to wagering requirements and also is not my interpretation of their rules. I would have hoped that a casino would have to have some kind of integrity. Im fighting this all the way. advise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Sad Story Mate... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CherryPi Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Often BJ has something like 5% towards wagering and has maximum bet of ~25$. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markymark Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 TGC crew have said it all mate. Welcome to TGC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUKHackz Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I've just opened an email from @4kingidiot and he has apparently received his money in full! He will be on here at some point to update... *I'd also like to add he offered TGC 200 Dollars just for helping him now he has his money, of course we won't accept it but this guy is a genuine chap and deserves praise for his morals. 2 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chair Slots Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Ahh great result!! (First dibs on the $200) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonin Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 hours ago, MrUKHackz said: I've just opened an email from @4kingidiot and he has apparently received his money in full! He will be on here at some point to update... *I'd also like to add he offered TGC 200 Dollars just for helping him now he has his money, of course we won't accept it but this guy is a genuine chap and deserves praise for his morals. What an awesome news!! Very happy for you @4kingidiot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.